Mr. Speaker, it gives me pleasure to enter into this debate on Bill C-17, the budget implementation act.
I was very pleased to attend all of the hearings with regard to this bill at the committee stage. At that stage there were some interesting presentations from those who wanted greater benefits in terms of the unemployment insurance portion of the act which in this omnibus presentation before us and those who wanted to have the legislation concerning unemployment insurance more on an insurance basis so that the books would be more balanced and there would be less government intervention.
I would like talk about what I heard at those hearings. I want to make sure that those ideas are presented in this assembly.
The Reform Party, as my colleague mentioned earlier, is in support of the section concerning the unemployment insurance changes. We support it for two basic reasons. First, we believe there is a reduction in cost to business. Business across this nation at the present time is under stress. We believe that the reduction of cost can enhance employment opportunity for many people in the working world.
Second, we believe that this amendment brings us closer to the insurance principle whereby payments by the employer and the employee will be equal to benefits that are derived therefrom.
One suggestion made by a number of the groups is that we should have more input by the employer and the employees with regard to unemployment insurance. At the present time there is a feeling that government has too much say as to how the program is run. It was suggested that we should change the legislation even more extensively than the legislation before us now to a point where the government is one step removed.
I asked in that debate what would be the role of government. The suggestion was that the role of government would be a sort of funding agency that could play a part when there were surges. In other words, if there was a surplus of funds in the unemployment insurance fund, they could be the retainer of those funds but when there is a demand on funds the government would have this revolving fund available so that funds could be put into unemployment insurance and there would be moneys available at times of need.
That is a principle that we should consider here. I think it would put the unemployment insurance fund on a basis whereby it stands on its own merits and on its own financial support system.
We had some concerns regarding this Bill C-17 relative to the section on unemployment insurance. First, there was the question as to whether it should be a change in legislation just to reduce the deficit. As reformers we certainly support any kind of measures that go to reducing the deficit. If that were its only purpose we would feel that supporting this amendment would not be the right thing to do.
The second item that raised some concern with us was with regard to the item which we call the two tier system whereby there is the possibility of a means test for certain persons who qualify for unemployment insurance. I would think in principle it is not right that we have a two tier system. When a person pays into an insurance program, whether that person is single, married or whatever the status may be, that person should qualify for a certain level of benefits. To enter this other dimension into the system and at that time raise the question as to a person's other means I think is wrong. I certainly would not be in support of that area in this piece of legislation.
The third area that concerns us is the fact that this legislation was brought in with the budget. It was implemented with the budget. Following that the government announced a very comprehensive review of social programs. In a sense unemployment insurance is an integral part. To approve legislation in this assembly separate from this comprehensive review I do not think is right. It certainly raises a concern with us on this side of the House.
Fourth is with regard to the pilot projects. As a reform party we are not against any kind of pilot projects where we can experiment, look at efficiency or bring about avenues by which we can better allocate and expend public funds. However, the questions that are unanswered are the ones we are concerned about. What really qualifies as a pilot project? Who will be involved in these pilot projects? Will they be persons who are really skilled and have expertise in the area? Are we looking at some type of pilot projects that will satisfy some political friends? I hope not.
The other question is what is it that we are really trying to discover? What do we want to achieve through the pilot projects? Is it another means by which we are evading the real question before us? That question is certainly dealing with the unemployed of this country. Are we trying to do things just to pacify the general public by putting in place a pilot project which in a sense is a delay tactic that is often used by government in trying to avoid the main question that is before us?
To resolve and deal with these problems, certainly the one about unemployment insurance, we have to deal with the primary question. The primary question as we all know is what do we do about government spending? What actions must we take to encourage growth in the economy? The primary question is what actions must be taken. We feel and have said very clearly in this House that one thing that must be clear to the public and the investment community in Canada is that the government does have a deficit reduction program.
The presentation of the budget, this budget implementation act and other actions of the government to this time do not indicate to the investment community, the business community or the private individual community that the government has come to grips with its spending. When we do and confidence is in this nation and the economy grows then jobs will be available and the concerns we have heard with regard to unemployment insurance will certainly not be there. They will be set as a side agenda very low on the priority not only of this House but of Canadians.
I feel the solution lies in that area. However, in terms of the unemployment insurance program we must remember that program is not a welfare program. It is not a program by which people can live for months and months on unemployment insurance. It is a program that provides interim assistance between one job and the next job opportunity.
As I listen to the Bloc Quebecois make its presentation in this assembly I become concerned when it says benefits must be extended extensively. What I hear in its message is that it wants the benefits to be just about welfare benefits, not benefits on an interim or temporary basis for those who are between jobs. If we move to a point at which it becomes a program of longer term financial security then we have moved away from the insurance principle about which I spoke in the early part of my remarks and that would be wrong.