Debates of May 9th, 1994

Justice

[Ian McClelland, Reform, Edmonton Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, again to the Prime Minister. Across this nation from one coast to the other Canadians are sick and tired of this mollycoddling of criminals at the expense of law-abiding citizens through this Cappuccino Liberalism.

On October 7, 1971 the Government of Canada approached a fork in the road and took the wrong turn. The government chose to stress the rights of the criminal rather than the rights of the victim.

My question for the Prime Minister is this. What specific steps will the government take to ensure that the rights of victims are paramount to the rights of criminals? What specific steps?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, let me make it clear, if I have not already, that I reject absolutely the characterization the hon. member has given to the policies of this government about preferring the rights of criminals to the rights of victims.

This government is not interested in that kind of rhetorical exchange. The fact is we have an agenda of proposals in our platform which we are going to follow through with legislation in this House that is intended to achieve both an improved justice system and legitimate efforts toward crime prevention.

I do not think it advances the discussion to characterize a statement from 1971 as what has been going on in the justice system in the last 23 years. The fact is we have made our agenda for legislation clear and we intend to follow through on it.

Drug Patents

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister. When they were in opposition, Liberal members were dead set against Bill C-91, an act regarding drug patent protection. As a matter of fact, they all voted against it, except for the Minister of Finance, who was then the member for LaSalle-Émard.

The Prime Minister said recently that he would not reopen this act. However, there is considerable pressure within his party to review Bill C-91 before 1997, and to give less protection to patent drugs.

Can the Prime Minister confirm that, in spite of the intense pressure within his party, his government will not review Bill C-91 before February 1997, as planned?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I said clearly that we intend to abide by the legislation which was passed, but we must do our job, and make sure that the companies that promised to invest are doing so and, secondly, that they are honouring their commitment not to increase drug prices. It is also our duty to check that they are discharging the obligations they have towards the government.

I must say that I am very happy to see that the member is concerned about the stability of industries in Quebec because we too want stability in this country. If he wants to be of assistance,

he should stop talking about separating, that would help Canadian legislation stay stable.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I have a supplementary for the Prime Minister who would maintain greater stability if he gave concrete answers to concrete questions.

I will ask him a concrete question. Does the Prime Minister recognize that, according to the Patented Medicine Prices Review Board, since Bill C-91 was enacted, the Canadian pharmaceutical industry has invested nearly 10 per cent of its revenues in R & D and that drug prices have more or less followed the consumer price index since 1987?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I said in this House that if the industry upholds its commitments, it can sleep soundly.

National Parole Board

[Paul Forseth, Reform, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Solicitor General.

Last Friday the Solicitor General accepted the resignation of Mr. Dagenais as chairman of the National Parole Board. The Solicitor General said that the board needs a new direction, a direction that would choose its members based on confidence, merit and wide consultation.

My question is on the topic of consultation. Will the Solicitor General agree to allow the standing committee on justice to review the nominee for chairman before any final appointment is made?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, we will be advertising the position in the Canada Gazette . The applications will be considered carefully on the basis of merit and competence. We will certainly be consulting widely before any final decision is taken.

I will certainly take the hon. member's suggestion under consideration. I thank him for making it.

[Paul Forseth, Reform, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I applaud the minister's willingness to open up the process. As the minister knows, Standing Order 110 provides for any nominee to be scrutinized.

From this point onward will the minister forward all nominations to the National Parole Board to the standing committee on justice for review before any final decision is made?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. speaker, the hon. member has made an interesting suggestion. I have to point out that the final decision under the law is in the hands of the cabinet, which unlike the committee, has to be accountable to the Canadian public for its decisions.

Taxation Of Groceries

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

On Monday, May 2, speaking of the GST, the Prime Minister stated in this place, and I quote: "We hate it and we will kill it".

In a report tabled in this House in November 1989, the Liberals, who were in opposition at the time, wrote, and I quote: "The Liberal members of the Finance Committee cannot tolerate the idea that groceries would be taxed." Furthermore, in the same report, the Liberals denounced all forms of hidden taxes.

Now that he is in government, can the Minister of Finance finally tell us if he intends to abide by the stands his own party had taken when in opposition and show some consistency by refusing to allow any tax, whether hidden or not, to be applied to food?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member knows full well, during the election campaign, we said the whole issue of the GST would be referred to the Finance Committee, which was done, and the committee is now preparing its report.

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, seeing that the reasons supporting the Liberal Party's position in 1989 are still valid, does the Minister of Finance's failure to answer the question mean that he has changed his mind and wants to replace the GST with a hidden tax that would also apply to food?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

What my answer means, Mr. Speaker, is that we intend to make good on our promise. We have kept our word by referring the issue to the finance committee on which opposition members sit. As you know, the committee will be presenting its report before long.

National Parole Board

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Solicitor General.

I too had the opportunity to attend the rallies that were held in Calgary and Edmonton this weekend. There were thousands of voices crying out: "If you do the crime, do the time". I know that does not make sense to the group across the way but it does represent the voice of millions of Canadians.

What I would like to know is will the Solicitor General declare a moratorium on paroling violent offenders until Parliament completes its review of this crucial issue?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I reviewed the legislation and I do not find anything in it which gives the Solicitor General the authority to declare a moratorium on any kind of work done by the parole board in deciding who may be entitled to a release.

In fact, I ask the hon. member to consider whether he and his party really want the members of the parole board in their decisions to be subject to political direction or interference. I do not think they would really want that on reflection. I do not think the House would want that. I do not think the public would want that. In any event, the law does not give the Solicitor General permission to give the kind of order that he is seeking.

I also want to add that the legislation talks about the protection of the public as a principle the parole board has to follow, and protection of the public is certainly the priority of the government.

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the first comment with regard to the fact we cannot do anything is a cop out. Second, I am really pleased to hear the Solicitor General say the safety of the people is of utmost importance.

Therefore I urge the Solicitor General to consider this request carefully. With the parole moratorium for violent offenders future tragedies will more than likely be prevented. If a moratorium is not introduced is the Solicitor General prepared to be held accountable by the people of Canada for needless tragedies that will certainly occur?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I have already pointed out that the legislation adopted by Parliament does not give the Solicitor General the authority to order such a moratorium. It is not a matter of a cop out. It is a matter of stating what the law says.

However, I have said in the House and outside that it is the intention of the government to present legislation which will update and improve the parole and correction system. I look forward to the support of the hon. member and his party in expediting that legislation when it comes before the House.

Fisheries

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development. Many times in this House, the Minister of Human Resources Development has championed consultation on the fisheries industry adjustment strategy, especially on the issue of individual contracts. However, on Saturday, his press secretary confirmed that the government would no longer require individual contracts:

There is really no need for a separate contract.

My question is this: Did the minister not consult with the unions on the obligation to sign individual contracts, which in the words of the union president added unnecessary stress and pressure to the people and that as a result, he had to retreat?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is that the hon. member is simply trying to stir a pot in which there is no tempest. Why try to create a problem when one does not exist?

We are introducing a program of $1.9 billion to assist 30,000 people to get a chance to go back to work and to find new careers.

Each of those individuals, as part of the process, will sign an agreement that will commit the Government of Canada to provide all available resources to help them to be retrained, to start their own businesses, to develop projects in the environment, to enhance the fisheries. In return, each of those individuals commence becoming involved, being an active participant.

That was a discussion that we started last February with the provinces. That is a discussion that we had with the unions. That is the same discussion we had on Friday when an official from my office met with members of the union and they agreed to the process.

I do not understand for the life of me why the hon. member is getting so exercised about something that is clearly agreed to by all the parties and that will be to the benefit of all those in the fishing industry of Quebec and the Atlantic provinces.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Gazette article to which I referred says that the department dropped the requirement for individual contracts.

Does the minister admit that his about-face shows that until the provinces and workers' representatives are really involved in the decision-making process, he cannot go on claiming that the social contract is really being renewed?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, unlike the hon. member I do not rely on an article in the newspaper for my information. I deal directly with the people involved.

As a result we get the information right. The right information is, as I have said previously, that every individual in the fishing industry in all the provinces involved will be signing an agreement as part of the overall plan in which they agree to put their own time and energy to helping themselves develop an active involvement in the labour market.

In return we provide the resources to help them make those choices. It is an opportunity of mutual responsibility. It is an opportunity to develop a way that individuals can work together with government, with unions and with business in a collective, co-operative fashion.

Frankly, I do not know the point of the member's question. When something is working so well, why is she trying to downgrade it and undermine it?

Rwanda

[Ted McWhinney, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

With the tragic communal strife in Rwanda now transcending national boundaries, will the minister ask the United Nations Secretary-General Boutros-Ghali to request the security council for emergency action under chapter six of the United Nations charter?

[André Ouellet, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I had the opportunity to discuss this issue today with the US ambassador to the UN, Madeleine Albright, who was passing through Ottawa. I reminded her that Canada finds it regrettable that the UN security council did not decide to send a bigger contingent than that currently in Rwanda to assist General Dallaire, who is trying to get the parties to agree to a ceasefire.

I remind the hon. member that on Friday Canada asked the UN Human Rights Commission to look into the situation in Rwanda with the utmost urgency and make a series of recommendations in this regard. Finally, I remind him that Canada made available to the United Nations and humanitarian organizations two military planes now in Nairobi that can at any time bring food and medicine to the afflicted people of Kigali and the surrounding area.

Gun Control

[Val Meredith, Reform, Surrey—White Rock—South Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice.

Yesterday the Ontario Association of Police Services Board said the one-year minimum sentence for using a firearm during the commission of an offence was no deterrent, describing the penalty as laughable.

Is the minister prepared to increase the minimum penalty under section 85 of the Criminal Code or will he continue to deal with the illegal use of firearms by going after the legitimate gun owners who have never broken the law in their lives?