Mr. Speaker, the debate today starts from the premise that the health condition of air, water, soil and atmosphere as we all agree is an indispensable precondition for a sustained economy and a healthy nation. The
question that arises is whether federal policies are helping in this respect and whether our values in society do so.
Today's debate on this environmental protection act is intended to come to grips with this question and to lay the foundation for our work in the months ahead.
The hon. member for Frontenac referred to the blue planet which we share. He said that we are all in the same boat, and I fully agree with him. However, I wonder how he can, in the same breath, allude to federal intrusions and accuse Ottawa of interfering in provincial affairs. When it comes to the environment, we cannot stoop to politicking.
I also want to say that I really appreciated the comments made by the hon. member for Terrebonne, as well as the feelings he expressed. I want to thank him for his co-operation and his ideas in committee.
I would also congratulate the member for Comox-Alberni for his helpful and constructive analysis of the legislation and for his concluding remarks which will certainly guide us in our deliberations in committee.
As to the act, if we are to put our economic activities on the right track so as not to damage health, natural resources and our long term economic prospects, I suggest that we must make this legislation work for the benefit of Canadians.
There are a number of points which must be noted with regard to this legislation. First, that it allow the ministers of the environment and health and welfare broad powers to gather detailed information about toxic substances from manufacturers, importers, transporters, distributors and users.
Second, this legislation requires the compilation of a priority substance list of suspect toxins for which assessment priority must be given and assessment reports prepared with intent of control by national regulation.
Third, if the government adds the names of toxic substances to the list then the government has broad regulatory powers to control all aspects including manufacturing, importing, exporting, packaging, labelling, transportation and storage. Persons who fail to give the required information or to comply with this regulation are liable to conviction of up to a $1 million fine or up to three years in prison and or both.
Fourth, a limitation in the legislation is the broad ministerial discretion to name substances to the priority list and to recommend regulatory action. There are an estimated 30,000 to 40,000 chemicals manufactured or imported into Canada. What constitutes a manageable number of chemicals for assessment priority is in itself a big challenge.
Fifth, where a substance has been on the priority substance list for five years and not yet assessed, any person may request a board of review but the resultant report would be recommendatory only. Only 44 substances have been listed over the past six years under the appropriate schedule of this act and subject to very limited regulations.
In March a number of organizations filed notices of objections because of 44 substances assessed under the priority substance list. Eleven were deemed neither toxic nor non-toxic because of the lack of data. These organizations argue that this unproven status violates section 14 of the act which states that within five years all substances on the priority substance list must be assessed and that the ministers have not fulfilled their statutory duty. These organizations can expect a board of review to investigate these 11 specific cases.
Then there is the international joint commission concerning the Great Lakes. It recommends: one, the virtual elimination of persistent toxic substances from the Great Lakes, including the use of chlorine and chlorine containing compounds as chemical feed stocks in industry; two, the elimination of other chlorine uses or at least their reduction and, three, a shift in the onus of proof. Instead of government or the public having to prove that a product is dangerous, why not have the manufacturers prove that the product or substance is not harmful? In addition the commission is urging industry to re-evaluate both the material and processes it uses.
At this stage the precautionary principle comes to mind as adopted in Rio 1992 in the declaration which reads: "When there are threats of serious or irreversible damage, lack of full scientific certainty shall not be used as a reason for postponing cost effective measures to prevent environmental degradation. The question is: Should this principle be included in the environment protection legislation?
There are in this legislation a number of hurdles to speedy action. Before regulations for toxic substances are imposed by cabinet a federal-provincial advisory committee must have an opportunity to tender its advice. If the Minister of the Environment and a provincial government agree that the province and the federal government regulations for a toxic substance are equivalent and both governments have similar investigative provisions, cabinet may declare that the federal regulations are non-applicable in that province. The application of this concept of equivalency continues to be controversial.
No wonder, I repeat no wonder, that as of today over the last six years not one such agreement has been entered into. A number of reasons account for the delay in implementation and provincial reticence among them to admit to any federal authority coupled with an overriding concern with a capacity for
control through the powers flowing from the constitutional concepts and precepts of peace, order and good government.
Next is the international scene. Where there is a reason to believe that an air contaminant in Canada is creating pollution in another country or violating an international agreement, the Minister of the Environment can recommend prohibitions or controls by way of regulations. However except for federal works or undertakings the minister is not allowed to make a recommendation unless consultations occur with the province where pollution is occurring as to whether regulatory steps may be taken under provincial laws.
The minister must endeavour to bring about provincial prevention or control if possible. Any federal regulation passed to control international air pollution may be made inapplicable to a province where equivalent provisions and investigative provisions and procedures are in place.
Mr. Speaker, this is quite a jungle to walk your way through, you will admit.
To conclude, this legislation of course is part of a broader picture. The parliamentary secretary has just given us a terrific framework against which we ought to approach this legislation. It is just one instrument in which we placed a lot of faith when producing it in 1987 and 1988.
Today we have to ask ourselves some tough questions, whether it can work, whether the idea of equivalency can be made to work, whether in the experience gathered so far it is sufficient to enable us and the legislators of today to conclude that CEPA can be improved by way of amendments or whether we need to start thinking of an alternative piece of legislation that would achieve the goal of environmental sustainability but through different means.
We are all aware of the significance of the assignment that the government has given to the committee. I am sure that the collective wisdom of all members of all parties in this House will help us to come back eventually with a report that will be for the benefit of Canadians from coast to coast.