Debates of June 10th, 1994

Regional Economic Development

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Industry. As we know, the federal-provincial conference on the reduction of interprovincial trade barriers ended without the parties coming to an agreement. In the National Assembly, Quebec's Minister of Industry spoke out against his federal colleague's desire to reduce Quebec's authority to act in matters of economic development.

Does the Minister of Industry confirm his government's intention to reduce the provinces' ability to promote regional development while Ottawa would still be free to support economic development in Western Canada and the Maritimes?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I took note of what Mr. Parizeau said in the National Assembly in reference to an article in the June 9 issue of the Globe and Mail ; however, he did not indicate where the quotation marks were in the quote attributed to me. I can tell the hon. member that the internal trade agreement will indeed provide for an exception for regional economic development. The same clause applies to all the governments that will sign the agreement, including the federal government and all the provinces.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister may have read or heard the opposition leader's comments but I do not know whether he has read or heard that Quebec's Minister of Industry, who, like himself, is a federalist and a Liberal, said yesterday: "It is unacceptable". It was not the Leader of the Opposition but the Liberal minister who made those comments. I imagine the minister must have read that too, as it is a large headline in the newspaper.

I ask the minister whether he specifically promises to review his position so that the Quebec government can preserve all the

powers it needs to help businesses and promote regional development, as not only the Leader of the Opposition but also Quebec's Liberal government have asked him.

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I regret to inform the hon. member that the negotiations are not yet completed with respect to an internal trade agreement.

As I always understood the position of the Bloc Quebecois, it favoured trade liberalizing agreements. Apparently it favours them with other countries but not with other provinces. This is a difficult thing for me to comprehend.

With respect to the specific question on regional economic development, let me say that we have conducted discussions throughout the process as a multilateral negotiation. The federal government is at the table with a position. Provincial governments of various political colours are at the table and they have different positions.

Our position from the point of view of the federal government is we want the maximum possible trade liberalizing measures within the internal trade agreement. We believe that is essential in order to enable Canadian firms to develop the domestic market to make them competitive in the international trading arenas in which they find themselves, whether we talk of NAFTA or whether we talk of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade, the Uruguay round which was concluded recently. That is our objective.

At the end of the day, the provinces and the federal government are going to have to look at the deal that has been negotiated. The provinces are entitled to put forward what they want. Collectively we will have to decide whether we have an agreement which makes a measurable improvement both in economic terms as well as in the structured terms over the existing conditions.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I understand that the minister has trouble conceiving that the Bloc Quebecois could be against the abolition of provincial trade barriers because the Bloc Quebecois never said that and has always favoured expanded trade. Of course, he cannot comprehend that we never said that. It is rather easy to understand.

I would also remind the minister that Quebec approved the free trade agreement while the people opposite were always against it. I ask him for a little more transparency from someone claiming that the federal government and the provinces are about to reach an agreement when Quebec's Minister of Industry, I remind you, finds it unacceptable that Ottawa should impose its will in matters of interprovincial trade. Is he willing to make the proposed agreement public to ensure transparency and enlighten the debate, so that Quebecers and Canadians can judge what is in the agreement?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I can understand that perhaps the hon. member does not understand that much about interprovincial trade. The point I was trying to make was that clearly if the Bloc Quebecois favours international trading agreements then it must be prepared to see a liberalization of trade within Canada. If that is not the case then perhaps the Bloc should make that clear.

With respect to the specific response that was given, I understand the question that is being put. I will try to put this as clearly and as simply as possible. The federal government is not endeavouring to dictate measures to anybody. The federal government is approaching this internal trade agreement from the point of view that we wish to find a negotiated agreement among all parties voluntarily.

The federal government is quite entitled to take a position at the bargaining table, as are other parties to the discussion. That, in simple terms, is what a negotiation is all about. We are trying to facilitate, but we are also there with a negotiating position which is that we want the most trade liberalizing agreement that we can get.

The measures which the hon. member first raised-and I take time because I believe this is very important-we have agreed on an exception for regional economic development. It will apply to the federal government and to the provincial governments.

Mr. Tremblay of Quebec asked for the time and is assuring himself that the measures he takes by way of industrial policy within his province will not be unduly hampered by the internal trade agreement based on reliance upon this exception.

[The Speaker]

I can understand that some questions take longer answers and I can understand that some questions have to be long. However I would ask all hon. members to please curtail their questions and answers so that we might get more questioners on and more questions answered.

Agriculture

[Jean-Paul Marchand, Bloc, Québec-Est, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in documents tabled at Geneva, Canada identified the Crows Nest as both a subsidy for export and a domestic support measure. Accordingly, this subsidy is subject to reductions.

However, in respect to domestic support, Canada has already fulfilled its obligations toward GATT. Furthermore, it is wrong to maintain, as did the Minister of Transport, that Canada must abolish these agricultural subsidies in order to meet GATT requirements.

My question is for the Minister of Transport. Does he recognize that he is misleading grain producers by stating that Canada is obliged to abolish Crows Nest subsidies in order to meet GATT requirements?

[Douglas Young, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, the last thing the Minister of Transport would want to do is to mislead the western grain farmers. We understand the importance of programs that assist western farmers in the production and the transportation of grain.

What I did say is that we are also aware of the changes that will have to be implemented with respect to the role that Transport Canada plays in the payment of direct subsidies to railroads. That is what we said and that is what we are going to have to address.

I do want to say, with all respect to my hon. colleague, that in the area of providing support and being very sensitive to the needs of the western grain farmers, the Minister of Transport always gives way to the very capable Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food.

[Jean-Paul Marchand, Bloc, Québec-Est, QC]

Mr. Speaker, does the Minister of Transport admit that any solution concerning the Crow's Nest subsidy must respect east-west equity among producers and avoid exposing eastern producers to unfair competition from western producers as a result of alternative federal subsidies?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, it is at least in part because of the great complexity of this issue that we intend to take the necessary time in order to consider all points of view and arrive at a very considered judgment as to what any future reform measures ought to be.

The hon. member has touched upon some of the complexities. There are many others. That is why the Minister of Transport and I have repeatedly said that we have processes under way already. There will be additional processes started later this year and continued through the fall and winter to hear all of the stakeholders who are involved in this very complicated and difficult matter. We will make sure that all points of view are taken into account. When the Government of Canada makes a decision with respect to transportation reform, it will make sure all of the issues are appropriately and fully addressed.

Justice

[Stephen Harper, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, according to an Angus Reid and Southam News poll on criminal justice released yesterday, 82 per cent of Canadians say the justice system is too soft on crime, while only one per cent think it is too harsh.

This is the case in all regions of the country. For example, in Quebec, 74 per cent say that the system is too permissive and only 2 per cent say that it is too strict.

My question is for the Minister of Justice. What concrete measures will the minister be introducing to address these very clear concerns of Canadians about the criminal justice system?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, in short, this government will be following through on its commitments made during last year's election campaign in which we dealt at length with steps we intend to take to achieve safe homes and safe streets, as we put it. The changes that were introduced last week with respect to the Young Offenders Act are the first example that I would proffer to the hon. member.

I may mention as well that in the days ahead we intend to table legislation that will significantly reform the sentencing provisions in the Criminal Code. We intend to bring forward a variety of other amendments to the code to make it more effective in terms of prescribing and enforcing the criminal law.

May I emphasize perhaps most of all the initiative that I expect the Solicitor General and I will be announcing in the coming weeks concerning the forging of a national strategy for crime prevention and the creation of a national crime prevention council, which I think is the most constructive response to the concern in the community to which the hon. member has referred.

[Stephen Harper, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians are clear in their belief that the number one solution to these problems is in the criminal justice system.

One in four Canadians reports having been the victim of crime in the past two years; 44 per cent of Canadians have taken measures to protect themselves including the purchasing of weapons, 73 per cent want the death penalty restored for the killing of police officers and 86 per cent want laws to make it more difficult to get parole.

Are these some of the concerns that the minister plans to bring forward in his criminal justice reforms?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, very much so. May I say that it will also be part of our response to emphasize that the criminal justice system, while it has an important part in all of this, cannot by itself resolve the question of crime or respond to the concern of Canadians.

Ultimately this government recognizes that to meet those concerns to improve the quality of life in this country, to achieve the safe homes and safe streets of which we spoke last year, we must come to grips with the underlying causes of crime. We must have both an effective justice system that is enforced properly and a comprehensive strategy for crime prevention. That is the agenda of this government.

[Stephen Harper, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians are clear that one of the, if not the root cause of crime is the criminal himself. We expect to see that addressed.

Yesterday, the separatist member for Saint-Hubert referred to the unanimous opposition of Quebec's so-called experts on crime to minor amendments to the Young Offenders Act.

What will the government do to ensure that the real voice of the great majority of Quebecers and Canadians who favour tougher action against crime is indeed heard by the government in these endless studies?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the measures that we will propose will be effective throughout all of Canada.

Canadian Radio-Television & Telecommunications Commission

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Minister of Canadian Heritage confirmed he had received a letter from the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadiennes asking him to intervene through the governor in council, in order to change a decision by the CRTC regarding the French all-news network.

Now that he has a letter from the fédération, does the Minister of Canadian Heritage intend to defend the interests of the fédération himself, in cabinet and recommend that cabinet act on this request and demand that the CRTC change its discriminatory decision as soon as possible?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday I agreed to raise the question in cabinet and to make a recommendation. I am now looking at the formulation of this recommendation and as soon as I have something to announce on the subject, I will do so right away.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, considering his responsibilities, can the minister give the assurance that he will defend the interests of francophone communities and will he undertake to provide these communities with access to a genuine, all news network in French?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, I weigh these decisions carefully, and consider the representations that are made, but there is no doubt, and I can repeat here what I have said elsewhere, that francophone and Acadian communities can count on the support of their minister.

Clifford Olson

[Val Meredith, Reform, Surrey—White Rock—South Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the solicitor general.

On New Year's Day 1981, serial killer Clifford Olson picked up a 16-year old female hitchhiker, pulled out a gun and then proceeded to repeatedly rape her over a 12-hour period. This incident took place two weeks after the first of 11 murders Olson committed.

The victim reported the incident to the Squamish RCMP detachment and Olson was arrested. When it was learned that the victim was a prostitute there were no further proceedings. As the RCMP were the police force involved in this incident, is the minister prepared to tell Canadians why this case did not proceed?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I have read the news report which has been summarized by the hon. member in her question but I know nothing more about it than was reported in the press.

The press report does raise troubling questions and I am certain that the solicitor general will want to consider the matter and inquire to determine the facts. I do not know that the premise upon which the question is based is factually correct, that is to say that the investigation was dropped because the victim was a prostitute. I know that was the suggestion in the news story.

I am sure the solicitor general will want to look into the facts and respond when they are known.

[Val Meredith, Reform, Surrey—White Rock—South Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, one of the underlying causes of crime is that the justice system does not work.

I would like to ask the Minister of Justice if he is prepared to ensure Canadians that a victim's lifestyle will not be considered a determining factor of whether criminal charges should be laid.

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, before responding to the question, let me respond to the hon. member's assertion with respect to the justice system.

The criminal justice system in this country works very well indeed. That notwithstanding, the positions taken from time to time with respect to isolated cases are referred to in the House.

In response to the question, let me say that I fully agree it must be a fundamental part of the justice system that it responds equally regardless of the lifestyle of the victim. I would earnestly hope and expect that no matter what the lifestyle of the victim, allegations of crime are investigated and prosecuted and punished without reference to such a consideration.