Mr. Speaker, nothing makes the job of a leader of the opposition who plans to criticize the government more difficult than being complimented by the Prime Minister first.
I would like to start by thanking the Prime Minister and expressing my appreciation for the opportunity he has given this House and Parliament as a whole of joining in consideration of an extremely important issue, the proposed legislation on lobbyists and the tightening up and improving of ethical standards in public life. I fully endorse, I echo, the Prime Minister's remarks just now on the need to maintain and promote respect for our institutions and especially for the institution of Parliament.
Parliament is the ultimate forum where democracy can speak out rationally, respectful of the value of others. It is here that our problems, whatever they are, must be solved, and solved in the right way. To this extent, the steps the government is proposing to take-with the opposition's co-operation, I am sure-to tighten up and strengthen standards of conduct within the federal administration, and on the federal scene, are most welcome.
I want to make clear right away that we fully support the appointment of Mr. Howard Wilson as Ethics Counsellor. We are aware that Mr. Wilson has had a praiseworthy career in the federal Public Service and that we can have every confidence in his ability to take the helm in this matter at a critical time.
Second, we are also fully in favour of the proposed combining of the duties and responsibilities of the Ethics Counsellor. It seems to me that the government is right to want to avoid duplication and to safeguard consistency and greater effectiveness in the implementation of provisions ensuring respect for ethical standards, especially as regards lobbyists.
I want to add that we also support-it gets tiring to keep repeating that the opposition agrees with the government-we also support the creation of a joint committee of the House and the Senate to define a code of conduct for MPs and senators, for everyone, in fact, who is not already covered by the existing guidelines, which are, I understand, going to be broadened and tightened up for senior public servants and ministers.
Now we have reached the nub of the matter before us this morning, the Lobbyists Registration Act. During the election campaign the government made a commitment to strengthen controls and improve the Act. The Act was a commendable first step, but it proved in practice to be too weak. A House committee considered the matter for quite a long time, worked hard under the chairmanship of MP Felix Holtmann, and tabled a report last June that found there was a need to change things to improve the Act. The government adopted the committee's proposal, since as we all know the red book promised that its recommendations would be implemented.
First, as far as the Ethics Counsellor is concerned, the powers of investigation attributed to him strike us as appropriate, a step in the right direction. If an Ethics Counsellor can on his own initiative launch investigations as soon as he has reason to suspect that a violation has been committed, that is a step in the right direction. Our examination has been purely preliminary;
naturally as the proceedings on the legislation unfold we will go into greater detail.
I understand that the Ethics Counsellor will be given powers of investigation, so that he will be able to summon witnesses, compel them to testify, and under oath, and that the evidence he obtains in this way will be admissible in court if a criminal offence has occurred. These provisions are more or less the same as the rules of evidence in the case of depositions to commissions of inquiry.
This having been said, I want to go on to some remarks that I think are very important, on the need to improve the legislation, because this bill has some serious shortcomings. I think the government can be persuaded of this. It is the opposition that will have to do this. We will of course have an opportunity to work with government MPs and we think we can persuade the government to change the legislation in a number of ways.
First, the Ethics Counsellor must be appointed not by the government but by the House of Commons. The government should have to submit Mr. Wilson's name to us. We know we will approve, it is not the individual who is at issue, we are committed to supporting his appointment. But the Ethics Counsellor should hold his mandate from Parliament. That would considerably increase his authority, his powers and his ability to intervene directly in anything related to the way government operates.
Remember, this is no ordinary appointment. This is the person who will have the authority to intervene in the way government manages its affairs, in Cabinet ministers' personal ethical conduct vis-à-vis their public responsibilities, even in decisions the Prime Minister might make; the person who will be able to make sure that the conduct of whatever Prime Ministers the future may produce will be consistent with the ethical standards that have been set.
So the person holding this position will be that much more comfortable, and the public will be that much more confident that he will carry out his duties as he should, if he is under the ultimate authority of Parliament. That is why I would urge the Prime Minister to consider the need, as I see it, to submit this appointment to Parliament as a government recommendation to be endorsed by Parliament, so that the Ethics Counsellor would be answerable directly to Parliament.
I do not want to run out of time before I have a chance to discuss two shortcomings in the bill that are, in my opinion, very serious. First, it maintains the distinction between two categories of lobbyists.
Reading the Standing Committee's report of last June, it is clear that the fundamental criticism the Committee made of the existing legislation-and there were Liberals on that Committee-was that the distinction between the two levels of lobbyists ought to be done away with, that a preferential system should not be maintained for lobbyists employed by big corporations over professional lobbyists.
The Act distinguishes between firms of lobbyists that identify themselves as such and take ad hoc contracts to make representations to the government and influence decisions, and other lobbyists, known as in-house lobbyists, whose official title might be "Vice President for Government Affairs" with a big company, and who might be based here in Ottawa, doing exactly the same work as professional lobbyists.
The existing legislation, which the bill being tabled this morning is supposed to amend and improve, provides that the lobbyists in this second category, the ones who work full-time and on salary for big corporations, do not have the same obligations. And when I skim quickly through the bill, as I said before, the distinction in requirements is still there.
For example, a Vice President for Government Affairs based here in Ottawa and working for a big company, whose sole job it is to lobby on his company's behalf, would not be obliged to divulge what contract he wants to obtain when he meets with senior public servants.
He is obliged to divulge the program and the type of legislation, but the others, the professional lobbyists, are obliged to divulge the contract. People are indicating to me that I am wrong. We will see. It often happens that people tell me I am wrong, but we will see as the proceedings unfold.
A second and I would say more serious, more fundamental shortcoming, is that lobbyists should be obliged, just as they used to be, to divulge the target of their interventions: whom are they going to approach? That way we know the nature of the role they are going to play. The Act simply says they have to divulge the names of departments and government bodies, but it is absolutely essential that they say which minister they are going to see.
Is a particular lobbyist going to see this or that senior government member, who may be in a position to exercise greater influence, for example, because he has something to do with campaign funds? It is important to know these things. It is the very essence of the legislation, it goes to the very heart of its effectiveness and the goal it is trying to achieve, that it should spell out very clearly, much more clearly than this bill does, in any event, the requirement that the individuals, the decision-makers who are going to be approached by lobbyists in the
course of their representations on behalf of their clients, be identified.
So there is plenty of work to be done. We are very pleased that this House has the opportunity to do it. We are going to work closely with other parliamentarians. We are not resigned to failing to convince the government of the need for improvements. I am sure that the government is open to these suggestions and that we will be able to give the people of Canada and Quebec a law that will assure them that there is a group of people in the federal Parliament who are working for their well-being and giving them every guarantee of doing so with the most scrupulous honesty.