Mr. Speaker, to a certain extent, the amendment before us can be considered a symbol. If our amendment is passed, it will be a sign that this government acknowledges that provinces which choose to opt out of the program can do so with dignity, and in full awareness of the situation, and fully take advantage of the opportunity to set their own requirements for their program.
If that clause remains unchanged, however, this bill on financial assistance to students will no longer recognize that provinces have the right to opt out with full compensation; it will reduce them to the status of beggars. Each time provinces want to specify a number of points in a section, they will have to abide strictly by the federal financial assistance program, so that it will be impossible to take into consideration special circumstances prevailing in a given province.
I will give you three examples in the bill before us in clauses 7, 10, and 11.
Clause 7 provides for an exemption from interest costs for a borrower who ceases to be a full-time student. If a province wants to exercise its right to opt out of the program, be it the Maritime provinces or Quebec, which has already opted out, and thinks a more substantial exemption is in order, it will not get it because big brother does not agree. There will be no room for adjustment to special conditions in a province where it is harder to find a job. It could be that in Toronto it would be normal to start paying back student loans the day after graduating, but not in New Brunswick where high unemployment makes it harder to get a job and where the provincial government might want to give students a better chance.
With this bill, the federal government forces all provinces to implement a system which is identical to the one defined in the present law.
The second example I wanted to give you concerns clause 10. These are all examples which pertain to people in everyday ordinary activities. It says that the lenders' obligations end if a student dies before completing his studies. How much latitude is there? Could some provinces not say that if death occurs the year after, the same exemption should apply? Some governments can be more humane than others or they may be able to afford more. Other provinces could impose more restrictions on that kind of situation.
With this bill, we will reintroduce the absurd situation which we now have in the health sector, where the federal government imposes standards on the services offered, but reduces its financing every year.
With the clause as worded in this bill, the federal government prevents practically any province that wants to exercise its right to opt out from doing so, because the conditions for opting out are such that there would be no benefit for the provinces, which are left with no room at all to manoeuvre in the areas where they would like to operate.
Clause 11, which deals with permanent disability of the borrower, is another example. The federal legislation says that when a student becomes permanently disabled, the minister can reimburse the amounts owed by the student. Now, a province might feel that in the case of partial disability, the government could repay part of the loan.
The three specific examples I wanted to give you show that an apparently minor clause that, on the face of it, seems quite benign, in fact hides a deep-seated desire for centralization. Instead of tabling a bill in which the opting-out principle is clearly explained, with full compensation for the province, if the government had told the provinces that there would be no more opting out, of course there would have been a tremendous hue and cry. However, this is an attempt to sneak through what the government has been unable to do in a more direct manner.
We suggested a slightly different amendment in committee, and when it was finally defeated, there was a moment of silence as members realized this was a clear example of the very different view we have of government intervention. On the federal side, there is the perception-perhaps it comes from the bureaucracy which answers directly to the ministers-that they know what to do and that is how things are supposed to work, and last but not least, it has to be the same everywhere.
A loan and grant program may include many areas where a province wants to do things differently. As for the previous remarks by the member from the Reform Party, I would ask him to moderate his enthusiasm about the fact that the current provincial Liberal government made no representations at the hearings, because that government exists in name only. It is nearing the end of its term. It is threadbare. It will soon be replaced by another government that will be genuinely committed to defending the interests of Quebec. It will do so, knowing what is involved, and it will ensure that every time, for as long as it is still part of the Canadian federation, the interests of Quebec and those of the provinces will be protected.
It is not only a matter of defending our powers province by province because it is written in the Constitution Act. It is simply obvious when it comes to loans and scholarships. We have had the proof with the representatives of francophone students in the rest of Canada who came and told us: "The law must provide clearly that we will be able to deal with our banks, caisses populaires and other financial institutions headed by francophones". Therefore, often the institution where a student chooses to negotiate his loan will be the institution he will deal with for the rest of his life.
That is why we need systems that allow provinces to opt out and to establish their own rules in order to meet such demands. I think the situation can be assessed very differently, for instance, in New Brunswick compared to Alberta. They could have different goals. There can also be a link between the way the provincial government is funding universities and the student loan and scholarship system.
For example, if a provincial government advocates free education as much as possible, the operating costs of the university will not diminish. Therefore, the government will support those costs in its administrative operations but its student loan and scholarship program will be reduced. Another province might go for a program in which education expenses, the real operating costs of the university will be paid for almost totally by students, while the government will not significantly contribute to the funding of education.
I think that we should have flexibility and pick one of the two following options: We either opt for a centralized system where the conditions are the same for everyone or we allow the provinces to use the important development tool that is education in order to acquire the leverage which will enable future generations to face the future.
I invite the government to reconsider its position on that amendment. It will only have to retain the right to opt out with full compensation and in no circumstances should a province have to convince the minister that its position is right. It should only have to inform him of its position.