Debates of June 16th, 1994

Food Distribution In Canada's North

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

moved:

That, in the opinion of this House, the government should take the necessary steps to make food distribution in Canada's North more effective and therefore more economical, in order to enable the Inuit to purchase higher quality food at a lower price.

Madam Speaker, like my Inuit colleague on the other side of the House, I will try to say a few words in Inuktitut and I will also provide a translation.

It means that I am pleased today to introduce this motion. It follows my trip to Iqaluit when I did not feel pleased last winter. I arrived in an extremely harsh climate, with temperatures around-30o". This motion is before the House today to draw the attention of Canadians and Northerners to the astronomical cost of food in the Far North. Not only is the cost astronomical but the living conditions are surely the most difficult in Canada.

I often spend two or three days on location talking with people. I was troubled to see how they live and I think that the proposal before us today at least has the merit of trying to do something for them. I do not know how far we will go, but I was very happy that my motion was drawn and that I can make this presentation today.

As I usually do, I will give a brief introduction and give you a summary of the historical background. The Inuit's ancestors immigrated from northern Asia 8,000 years ago. They must not be confused with other native people; they do not want to be called Indians, they are Inuit. It is very important throughout our discussion not to treat them as Natives; that would be a mistake.

Originally, the hunters used flint stones as weapons with which they eked out a living from day to day in extremely difficult conditions, as I explained to you briefly. A little later, they started using bows and harpoons. One may wonder why people from northern Asia would stop in such a hostile land with such a harsh climate. It is fairly easy to understand. Indians from South America had invaded North America and the lands further south were already occupied, so they simply decided to stay in the Arctic.

Of course, hunting is part of the tradition of many Inuit and Natives. In 1839, the Hudson's Bay Company embarked upon its economic incursion into the Arctic. At the time, it was mostly interested in whaling, and when the whale population began to

decline over there, it went as far as Ungava. When it realized that the fauna and the flora, but mostly the fauna, were getting scarce due to hunting and trapping, the Hudson's Bay Company changed its economic approach somewhat.

It focused more on trapping, because fur trading was becoming a very lucrative operation for the Hudson's Bay Company. That is when a change in the way of life of the Inuit was first noticed. They went from subsistence hunting to commercial hunting, and became more and more dependent on Europeans. That led to a progressive decline in the number of animals and made the Inuit more dependent on us.

Later, during the 1940s and 1950s, with the building of military bases in the area came the modernization of the economy, which did not necessarily please the people over there, because, as I will explain later, there are a lot of problems with the standard of living in Canada's North.

There was more and more state intervention. In 1955, for example, the federal government started a housing program in the Far North, which I will address later, because, as we know, housing is a big problem for Inuit as well as Natives. But I do not want to dwell on this. I would rather talk about the cost of food and I am just coming to that.

Still in the same context, the education level is very low. On average, the 30- to 40-year-olds have only completed grade 4. Unfortunately, in a modern economy, these people are left out. That is why their unemployment rate is so high, around 35 per cent. With a very unqualified labour force in a modern economy, they end up with a very high rate of inactivity.

As for health services, the Far North is huge and can you imagine that there was no health support in the area before the first community clinic was opened in 1947. Two years later, a second clinic was opened in Kuujjuaq, Quebec.

As many as 42 per cent of deaths in the area are caused by violent incidents. That is terrible! Of course, alcohol and drugs play an important role. These people have no hope, they are fed up with life and they turn to alcohol and drugs, thus causing many violent deaths.

Regarding the contamination issue, the modern economy which was brought to the region by the Hudson's Bay Company and which was perpetuated by other companies has caused a major mercury and heavy metal contamination problem in the North. Significant levels of toxins are found in the breast milk of Inuit women.

These people can no longer hunt for food. Instead, they have to buy products in a grocery store, just like you and I do every week.

The situation is not much better with regard to housing. A two-bedroom house costs about $150,000 up North, as opposed to about $70,000 here. We have to understand that all the materials must be shipped to the North, and that is why the cost of housing is so high.

Those people have a standard of living that is still much lower than ours. Their life expectancy is very short, much shorter than ours. Since they live in such a vast territory, when they need health care, they often have to travel over huge distances to get treatment. In fact, this causes many deaths. As for the birth rate, which also causes housing problems, whereas we have 13 births per 1,000 people in Quebec, the rate for the Inuit in Northern Quebec is 34 per 1,000. We can see that their population is growing rapidly.

The cost of living index is revealing: the average income of an Inuit is about $9,700. That is an important figure and, according to my calculations, that works out to about $187 a week. That is not much. As you and I will see, Madam Speaker, when we finish shopping for groceries later, there would not be much left to live on.

I will mention the study I have in my hands; it was made by a group suggesting that they could provide food distribution in Canada's North much more efficiently. The company's name is Tikisaivik and they did a market study. Market studies can be done by anybody, but this one clearly shows us that food prices could be reduced by 10 to 20 per cent. That naturally would have a major impact on those people living on a budget averaging, as I mentioned earlier, $187 a week. As you will see, after we finish shopping for groceries later, there would not be much left to live on.

With your permission, Madam Speaker, we will now go grocery shopping with our friends across the way and my colleagues on this side. We will go to the Northern Store in Resolute Bay. I will give you a price list for groceries compared to the prices in Ottawa. A litre of milk costs $3.69 in Resolute Bay, but $1.25 in Ottawa; a loaf of bread costs $2.85 in Resolute Bay, and $1.59 here; a five kilogram bag of flour costs $11.25 there, and $4.49 here; a dozen eggs costs $3.85 there, and $1.29 here; a bag of apples costs $3.63 there, and $2.62 here; a sack of potatoes costs $4.95 there, and $2.99 here; a can of peas-I like peas with turkey, it is very good-a can of peas costs $2.95 there, and 69 cents here; apple juice costs $4.50 there, and $1.19 here. We could go on and on; ground beef costs $8.97 there, and $3.72 here. At the end of the list, I have Tang orange juice which costs $2.85 there and $1.09 here in Ottawa. If we add all items together, the total will be $124.77 in Resolute Bay, compared to $49.28 in Ottawa. If your salary is $187 a week and your groceries cost you $124.77, there is not much left for the rest of the week.

Why is this? It is due of course to the great distances and to a very complex distribution network which starts in Winnipeg, Ottawa or Montreal; for somes places, the goods are moved by train before being sent by plane; in others, they are moved by truck. In Quebec, they travel over something like 2,000 kilometers by truck before being shipped by plane to the Far North. So, the proposal that is being made, and this is only an example, there could be other proposals, as I said earlier, is that big

carriers with a single supplier could go directly from Montreal to Iqaluit, where I went, and I explained a bit earlier the living conditions that exist there. So, we would avoid all the go-betweens, those who make a profit along the way.

These people are simply proposing that big carriers be used to bring everything to Iqaluit and, from there, the food would be distributed by small planes to villages of this huge territory.

That proposal has the merit of reducing by about 10 to 20 per cent the cost of a shopping basket, as I explained. This is not insignificant. And there is also a series of other measures that would not only make this project viable, but also contribute to the Inuit really taking control of their lives in the Great North. This project would create 55 direct and indirect jobs in the Great North, particularly in Iqaluit, which is not insignificant, because in a context where 35 to 40 per cent of our people are without jobs, 55 jobs would be very welcomed in the Great North.

There is also the whole issue of the federal government that is already paying a lot. Canada Post-we are talking about the famous local transportation-is paying $20 million a year for food distribution, while the study that we have here suggests that we may be able to do the equivalent for $9.8 million. So, not only the cost of food products may decrease, but shorter transit times would allow for fresher products, while in the present system, when the food gets there-and I saw it myself- it is anything but fresh and barely acceptable. I think that we would not accept that in our shopping centres.

I do not want to talk too much about investment, but the federal government might be asked to invest in this area. However, considering we could save between seven and eight million dollars annually on the way food products are distributed, it seems to me that the initial funding requested is negligible.

Before I forget, I would like to say that Tikisaivik is 60 per cent Inuit-owned. Most of the shareholders are Inuit. Madam Speaker, I certainly do not want to be seen as playing favourites, but I took this company as an example because it had the best and most effective studies. Five students at the master's degree level did a market survey, and I have it here today.

I will try to be brief, because I see that my time is running out. The objective is lower food prices. I think that is essential. In fact, it is the focus of my speech today. It is important for the well-being of the Inuit in the North, whether they are in Quebec, on Baffin Island or even closer to the Arctic, to have a food distribution system that would not be a drain on the family budget. Reducing the price of food will enhance the quality of life of the Inuit in the North, and that is the most important factor.

Another point is improving food quality. Earlier, I talked about freshness. It will be possible to eat fresh vegetables at their peak and to improve the way they are handled, as opposed to what I saw in the shopping centres up there.

Job creation. This is also a very important factor, as I said before. Fifty-five Inuit jobs could be created.

Variety in the type of foods and creating a local economy. I think this is where the government could make a contribution so that the Inuit can escape the cycle of dependency in which they have been kept for too long. This plan for a modern economy will ensure that people can work in the food distribution sector in the North. In fact, this should be done by local people instead of companies from outside that do not know the local situation and operate on the premise that they have to give their shareholders a decent profit.

Local people have a stake in the quality of life of the Inuit, and I think that is important.

I will conclude with a few words in Inuktitut-I hope I pronounce them properly-"nakurmiik toma", which means we look to the future with confidence, and I hope that if the government takes a good look at how food distribution in the North can be made more economical, I think we can look forward to the future and ensure that the Inuit will have the quality of life they should have had many years ago.

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to have this opportunity to participate in tonight's debate. First of all, I would like to say, however, that I am not an expert in this area. I have often travelled to northern regions of our country to do some canoeing which I enjoy. I have often noted the regular prices of goods in the North. I congratulate the hon. member for Saint-Jean for his interest in this question and for moving this motion in the House.

However I would like to stress that a reliable and affordable food distribution system is critical to the health and well-being of tens of thousands of Canadians living in northern isolated communities. This issue is one that must concern us as a national legislature in Canada.

Here in the south the issue of food distribution is not as significant for one or either of governments or residents. Nutritious food is broadly available at supermarkets or corner stores throughout the areas in southern Canada. Distribution of food

products is left in the hands of the private sector, with no demand for or need for government involvement.

In the north the situation, as the hon. member has indicated, is dramatically different. Many communities are isolated and do not have year round surface access so food supplies must be delivered in some cases by air and in other cases by sea. Perishable foods, which as a rule are the most nutritious, are very difficult to arrange for in some of these communities. The expense of transporting perishable foods to remote communities increases their cost to consumers. The hon. member provided the House with a list, the variety of which I have seen in my northern experiences.

These areas are not only isolated but they are often economically depressed. In some communities unemployment is as high as 85 per cent. Many families are living on social assistance, supplemented by whatever commodities they can harvest from the land.

The northern food mail program therefore is vitally important. It subsidizes the cost of shipping perishable, nutritious foods to isolated northern communities, and puts these basic necessities within the reach of northern families. On many of the flights I have taken to various places in the north I am aware that the plane is filled with bread, eggs, milk and other perishables that are shipped to these communities. However, even with the assistance of this program, it is extremely difficult for families to afford the proper and nutritious food that is demanded. Without the program it would be virtually impossible to do so.

I again stress that the prices the hon. member listed are not exaggerated. I am not exaggerating when I say the situation in the north would be desperate without this program. Government studies show that a family of four in isolated communities in the Northwest Territories would have to spend between $260 to $280 a week, or between 85 per cent and 110 per cent of their after shelter income for a basic diet. That is about twice the cost of a comparable basic diet in southern Canada.

I would remind hon. members that Canada is a signatory to the United Nations declaration on the rights of the child. One of those rights is the right to adequate nutrition. Children should not go hungry, especially in our country.

There can be no question in my submission as to the need for the program. The only question is what form the government subsidization for food distribution or food costs should be. We stress it is essential for the health of northern residents. It is also fair to say that the current program is achieving its intended purpose, notwithstanding the suggestions made by the hon. member.

The northern food mail program is strongly supported by the communities it serves, by the food distribution companies, by the merchants that form part of the distribution system and by the consumers. Canada Post, which ships food products and other essential goods by air, has been a willing and vital partner in the program.

In spite of all that, I commend the hon. member for Saint-Jean for urging the government to reconsider the current northern food distribution system. There is always room for improvement and governments should be continually looking at new approaches to program delivery.

Therefore I am extremely pleased to inform the House that the government has already taken steps to re-evaluate this program. In April the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development and the Minister of Health committed their departments to a full review of this essential service for the next year.

This review will build on an evaluation of the program that was undertaken by consultants last year. It will include consultations with all the key stakeholders, including northern residents, merchants, air carriers, provincial and territorial governments, and aboriginal organizations.

This consultation process is fully in keeping with the red book commitment, and I know the hon. member has read the red book extensively, to ensure that aboriginal people are fully involved in decisions that affect their lives. Toward this end, regional consultation meetings will be held in the north this September and October. Written views and recommendations will also be accepted by the government.

My hon. colleague will be particularly pleased to hear that an interdepartmental committee is currently looking at terms of reference to guide this review. In addition to Health Canada and Indian and Northern Affairs Canada, the committee has representations from the Departments of Finance, Agriculture, and Human Resources Development, the Treasury Board and the Privy Council Office.

This review will look at the issue of food distribution in the north from a very broad perspective. It will not just consider how much money is being spent or needs to be spent under the northern food mail program. It will address the fundamental question of whether or not this is the best way to ensure that northerners can meet their needs for food and other essential goods that are currently shipped under the program.

It will review alternatives for food distribution and food costs subsidization including income support to ensure that people have money to buy the essential foods. The role of local food production, processing, and intersettlement trade will also be considered.

The review may tell us in the end that the essential structure of the program is solid but that some fine tuning is needed. It may tell us that a completely new approach is needed, or that the program should be developed and looked after by another level of government, or indeed by an independent organization.

In the meantime, hon. members have the government's assurance that funding for the program in its current format will continue. In 1994-95 a total of $14.1 million will be available for the food mail program. The bulk of this, some $13.6 million, will come from the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development. The remaining $500,000 will be contributed by Health Canada. This level of funding should be sufficient to maintain the postage rates at the current levels until March 31, 1995.

In closing, I want to say that I of course am not an expert on this subject. I have had some experience as I have indicated in the course of my remarks, but I am not an expert. The remarks I am alluding to and am in part reading have been prepared for the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development who is tied up at a committee meeting tonight and is unable to be here to deliver this particular speech. I am pleased to have the opportunity to contribute to the debate on his behalf and on behalf of the government.

In conclusion, this House must acknowledge that the northern food mail program has proven to be an effective and efficient way of making food and other essential goods more affordable in isolated northern communities. As a member who travels there occasionally I am pleased to support it. I am confident that if any improvements can be made either in the short term or in the long term, they will be identified in the course of the review which the government has under way and which will be reporting in due course.

I thank the hon. member for raising this issue in the House.

[Dale Johnston, Reform, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to participate in this debate on the motion presented by my colleague, the hon. member for Saint-Jean. The motion asks the government to make food distribution in Canada's north more effective and more economical.

I could not help but notice that the member who spoke just before me must have done his research from exactly the same material that I did mine. His speech sounded a lot like the one I am about to deliver.

We in the Reform Party are always looking for ways to improve on existing programs. I commend the hon. member for his initiative in bringing this motion forward.

Since the 1960s the federal government in conjunction with the post office has made an effort to supply isolated northern communities with affordable fresh produce. Under the northern air stage program the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development pays Canada Post a subsidy to cover a portion of the cost of bringing nutritious and mostly perishable food to communities that have no year round road or rail access. Approximately 125 communities serving about 86,000 people are eligible under this program.

As has been referred to previously, in the 1994 fiscal year this food mail subsidy will amount to some $14.1 million. Of this, $13.6 million will be coming from the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, with about half a million dollars coming from the Department of Health.

The residents of Canada's north face not only higher retail prices than we southerners but they also have a critical employment program. Most work in that area is, at best, seasonal in nature. The 1986 census showed that only 35 per cent of the aboriginal population 15 years of age or older were employed, compared to 60 per cent for all of Canada in the same age category. Of course a high unemployment rate means a lower annual wage and ultimately less purchasing power.

The high cost of transporting goods in the north, even with the government subsidized food mail program, results in higher consumer prices. As was also alluded to earlier, a family of four in these isolated communities in the Northwest Territories would have to spend between $260 and $280 per week just for a basic diet. That is at least twice as much as we would have to spend in southern Canada for the same diet.

A study by the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development conducted in 1990 concluded that by reducing the merchant's transportation costs, the air strategy subsidy has been an effective means of keeping the prices of food and other goods in remote areas lower than they otherwise would be. The study also found that an elimination of the subsidy would likely result in higher social assistance costs, higher health care costs and an increase in isolated post allowances for government employees.

When the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development launched this study in 1990 there were no apparent alternatives. Today, as was indicated by my hon. friend, there may be a practical cost-effective solution for at least part of this problem.

As was also alluded to by the mover of this motion there is a corporation which is prepared to establish a food distribution network. I certainly do not want to propose one corporation over another but where there is one, there are likely to be others.

This corporation plans to supply food from a central distribution centre in Iqaluit which at the outset would serve some 38 northern communities. This unique Canadian enterprise predicts that the price of food products in the north could be

reduced by 10 to 20 per cent. This will be possible because of the company's plan to reduce transportation costs and because its purchasing power will enable it to negotiate lower prices and to pass the savings on to the customers.

This company expects to save on transportation costs by regrouping products and chartering aircraft that would carry up to $75,000 worth of merchandise per flight. While its plan initially is to be a food wholesaler, the company estimates that it can receive 88 per cent of the market share in two years by supplying perishable food products and other consumer merchandise needed by northern residents but not currently available at reasonable prices.

The overall cost to inaugurate the service is estimated to be some $1.65 million. Without going into too much of the financing it is safe to say that the company would probably need some government loan guarantee in order to get started. I think the operative word here is "loan". As was also mentioned by the mover of the motion, this company would create jobs for some people in the north and they also all are shareholders of this particular company.

What benefit is this for the Canadian government? The company's prospectus predicts initial savings for the government of up to $3.6 million. It expects to train and employ, as was mentioned before, about 55 local people.

Now as you know we in the Reform Party are strong believers in the free enterprise system. I am personally pleased to see that this group has taken the initiative to provide a better service to at least some of the isolated northern communities. It sounds like an excellent viable alternative.

If this group is successful, it is likely that other entrepreneurs will follow its lead. Then there would be no need for the Government of Canada to provide so much subsidy to Canada Post for the food mail program.

If this had been a votable motion, I would have asked that it be referred to committee. I would encourage our party to support this motion and refer it to a committee for further examination. Since it is not a votable motion, I would like to encourage the government.

I was very pleased to hear the member opposite say that the government has plans to review this whole program and, I hope, these proposals. Certainly what I would encourage is that the government look at every possible proposal to make the food distribution in the north far more efficient and effective as well as improving the quality of the food and ultimately the diet of the people who live in the north.

[Morris Bodnar, Liberal, Saskatoon—Dundurn, SK]

Madam Speaker, I rise to address the House on the motion put forward by the hon. member for Saint-Jean.

As my hon. colleague has explained, the northern air stage program is critical to the good health of many thousands of people living in remote northern communities. It is also a federal initiative that is not well known to many Canadians or to their representatives in this House. I would like to take this opportunity to provide some background on the program so that hon. members can fully appreciate its importance.

The principal objective of the northern air stage program is to achieve food security in isolated northern communities. Food security is defined as a condition in which all people at all times have access to safe, nutritiously adequate and personally acceptable foods in a manner which maintains human dignity. Food security poses special challenges in northern Canada, where southern food is very expensive and retail competition is extremely limited.

There are also increasing pressures on traditional food sources as well as concern about contaminants in the food chain. Hunting itself is expensive, especially for people who are already in low-paying jobs or are receiving social assistance.

Under the northern air stage program the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development makes payments to Canada Post to subsidize the cost of providing air parcel service to communities that are not accessible by year round surface transportation. This payment covers between 50 and 60 per cent of the cost of sending these parcels, most of which are food items. This is why the program is more commonly referred to as the northern food mail program.

This program has become a vital element of the northern food distribution system. It ensures that supplies of nutritious, perishable food are delivered to about 45 Inuit communities in the Northwest Territories, northern Quebec and Labrador. It also serves about 60 isolated First Nation communities in the James Bay region of Quebec, in Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and the Northwest Territories, and about 20 mainly non-aboriginal communities in Labrador and the north shore region of Quebec. In total, some 86,000 Canadians depend on the program.

In 1989 the previous government announced that the food mail program would be phased out after more than two decades of existence. As might be expected, this announcement was met with a great deal of opposition both in the north and in the House, and the government decided instead to undertake a major review of the program.

As a result of this review steps have been taken to make the program more equitable in terms of the subsidization rates paid

for parcel delivery to communities in the Northwest Territories compared to the provinces.

The postage rates for shipments to the territories traditionally had been about three times as high as in the provinces. Important changes have been made also in how funding is applied. The lowest postage rates are provided now for nutritious, perishable food. Food of little nutritional value has been disqualified from funding.

As well, shipments of alcohol and tobacco products are not subsidized under this program. Merchants or individuals must use commercial air cargo service, winter roads, or seasonal marine service for the resupply of these items.

As a result of these changes Canada Post now charges 80 cents per kilogram plus 75 cents per parcel for nutritious, perishable food deliveries to all remote northern communities.

Non-perishable food and non-food items can be mailed to isolated communities in the northern parts of the provinces for $1 per kilogram plus 75 cents per parcel. In the territories the rate for these items has been maintained at $2.15 per kilogram plus 75 cents per parcel.

These changes have helped to reduce the prices of perishable food in the Northwest Territories. In some communities there has been a fairly significant reduction in the total cost of the basic northern food basket for a family of four.

In Pond Inlet, for example, the cost of this basket decreased by more than $30 between 1991 and 1993. Unfortunately there are many communities in which increases in the cost of non-perishable food have offset the reductions in the cost of perishables.

The lack of retail competition in many communities also continues to affect food prices. In Broughton Island where the local co-operative closed, leaving only one store in the community, the cost of the northern food basket actually increased by $40 between 1992 and 1993 despite the reduction in postal rates for perishables.

From a nutritional perspective, consumption of perishable food in Inuit communities in the Northwest Territories has increased significantly since the postage rates began to decline in October 1991.

In 1991-92 Canada Post shipped 758 tonnes of perishable food to the 10 communities in the Baffin region which traditionally have been on the food mail system. The following year when postage rates were further reduced these shipments increased by more than 35 per cent to 1,040 tonnes.

Despite this increased consumption, there is still a great deal of room for improvement. A government survey of isolated aboriginal communities taken in 1991 and 1993 shows that the per capita consumption of store-bought perishable food continues to be much lower in the north than in southern Canada.

As a result, the average intake of vitamin A and calcium is far below recommended levels and the average consumption of sugar in all communities is extremely high. This is obviously undermining the health of northern residents.

It is also evident that high food costs continue to be the major impediment to improved diets in the north. In the same survey I mentioned a moment ago, between 40 and 50 per cent of women reported that they were extremely concerned about not having enough money for food. In most communities, this was a greater concern than alcohol and drug abuse and family violence. The situation is obviously extremely difficult, but without the food mail program or some alternative, it could be much worse.

It is clear that some form of subsidization must continue for shipments of nutritious, perishable food items to isolated northern communities. The residents of these communities already have many problems to deal with: poverty, overcrowding, family violence, alcohol and substance abuse, cultural disruption, gambling and so on. Hunger and poor health brought on by an inadequate food supply should not be added to the list.

I want to reiterate that the government has already taken the action proposed by the hon. member for Saint-Jean. An interdepartmental committee is now developing the terms of reference for a fundamental review of the food mail program for the next year.

I would urge my hon. colleagues to support this important initiative. The food mail program costs each Canadian taxpayer an average of about one cent per week. This is a very small price to pay, considering the enormous impact the program has on the health and well-being of 86,000 Canadians.

[André Caron, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

I am pleased to speak to the motion introduced by my colleague from Saint-Jean which calls on the government to take the necessary steps to make food distribution in Canada's North more effective, and therefore more economical, in order to enable the Inuit to purchase higher quality food at a lower price.

I listened closely to the speeches given by the hon. member for Saint-Jean and by my Reform and government colleagues. They have certainly defined the problem of food distribution in the North quite well.

I want to use my time to focus in particular on the situation in the Nunavik territories, that is in northern Quebec and certain parts of Nunavut which correspond to what used to be called Keewatin, Baffin Island and Kitikmeot. Everyone no doubt agrees that the major problem with food distribution in the

North is distance. On average, food is shipped over a distance of roughly 2,200 kilometres, and in some cases, of up to 3,000 kilometres.

Air and sea transportation modes are commonly used, with sea routes open only a few months of the year. To all intents and purposes, air transportation is the sole mode used. Obviously, transportation costs are astronomical, because after all, these territories are not inhabited by large numbers of people. Furthermore, considering the climatic conditions, costs can be exorbitant.

The big problem for the people of these territories and the people concerned-in the territories that I looked at, involving 27,000 people, including 8,000 in northern Quebec-is due to transportation costs and the cost of living. In these territories, the cost of living can be one and a half times or twice as high. So we see that it is a serious financial situation for these families. The situation is even more serious in that northern Quebec and northern Canada as a whole have a big problem with employment and inadequate incomes. For all practical purposes, salaries in these regions are modest, even very modest, and the cost of food is high.

The impact on the people's health is great. Many studies done in the South and some in the North show the connection between health and diet. That is why I wanted to speak on the motion of my colleague from Saint-Jean, because it really is a problem. I think that Parliament and the Canadian government must take the necessary action to deal with this situation for the good of the people concerned.

For the territories I am considering, food is transported by air from two places: Churchill and Val-d'Or. From these places food products are sent to the North. There is no distribution from major cities such as Montreal, for example, where wholesalers and retailers could send their products directly to the North. Goods are distributed through the two communities I mentioned.

Of course, it is not only a matter of costs but also of transit times, since goods sometimes take several days to reach their destination. It is a real problem but there are, of course, solutions. Many things are now being done to feed or help feed Northerners. There are government measures and subsidies, and I think the federal government's contribution is very worthwhile.

But there are still some problems. Costs are very high. Additional transportation costs to the North range between $0.70 and $7.75 a kilo, so we can see why costs are prohibitive. But there may be solutions we can contemplate. It was brought to my attention that the Inuit designed a project promoting the establishment of a distribution centre in the North, in order to combine the goods brought on the same plane, thus reducing costs and ensuring adequate distribution to the villages concerned.

I do not want to speak for and publicize the measures that may be taken by people who formed a private venture, but I think this project should be carefully analyzed by the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development because it seems likely to lower food costs in the North and because this initiative comes from Northerners. There as elsewhere, the people directly concerned are in the best position to take the measures required to improve their economic and social conditions. Since this project is sponsored by Inuit, I think it could be of interest to the Department of Indian Affairs.

This project also promotes the employment of Natives, of members of Inuit communities in the North. I think this should be one of our goals. Given the high cost of food in the North and the initiatives taken by Northerners, I urge the Department of Indian Affairs to consider the motion of my colleague from Saint-Jean and take the necessary steps to make food distribution in the North more effective. And if we can thus support Northerners willing to invest their money and energy in developing their communities, I think we should not hesitate to do so.

[The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Maheu)]

There being no further members rising for debate and the motion not being designated as a votable item, the time provided for the consideration of Private Members' Business has now expired and the order is dropped from the Order Paper pursuant to Standing Order 96(1).