Debates of June 3rd, 1994

Francophones Outside Quebec

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Speaker, which is the real position of the Bloc Quebecois concerning francophones outside Quebec?

Last week, the Bloc leader stated: "We recognize the existence of a francophone space within Canada, Quebec being the anchor point of this space". What an astonishing discovery really about a nation which has been around for three centuries!

Let us remember however the other face the Bloc Quebecois showed during the election campaign when the Prime Minister's legitimacy was put into question because he dared to represent an Acadian community.

Let us also remember the following immortal words: "Bilingualism is only an issue in Quebec. People in Manitoba and in Ontario do not really worry about speaking French, they just speak English". This is a quote of a Bloc Quebecois MP from the Hill Times , November 25, 1993.

Why is the face shown to Quebecers different from the one shown to francophones minorities? Could it be that the Bloc Quebecois is two-faced?

Collège Militaire Royal In Saint-Jean

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in a report to Quebec's Minister of Education, the advisory committee on the military college in Saint-Jean, chaired by former senator Claude Castonguay, concludes that closing this college is an irreparable mistake. The committee reluctantly proposes that the college be converted into a college and university-level educational institution focusing on international subjects.

Does the Deputy Prime Minister agree with the Castonguay Committee's conclusion that closing this college is an irreparable mistake?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Absolutely not, Mr. Speaker.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, does the Deputy Prime Minister admit that the money that will be saved by closing the college can only be minimal, compared to the negative effects of the closure and given that the operating costs of the college in Saint-Jean-I hope the Deputy Prime Minister knows this-are much lower than those of the college in Kingston?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I think the question that must be asked, and that we asked ourselves, is this: Why, if the Collège Militaire Royal is so essential, did 83 per cent of military-educated francophones attend other institutions?

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, does the Deputy Prime Minister not admit that, as the committee's report states, "the closure of the military college in Saint-Jean would mean the loss of the only college that is and can be truly bilingual"?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, my sister-in-law from Ontario studied in French. She completed her medical studies as a member of the military at the University of Ottawa.

Construction Of A French-Language School In Kingston

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment.

Monday, in the House, the Deputy Prime Minister endorsed the opposition expressed by Kingston city council to the construction of a suitable French-language school, saying it was

justified because, and I quote: "The proposed site was only steps away from a dangerous toxic waste treatment site".

Does the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment still maintain that Kingston's opposition to the proposed French school is justified because the site already purchased by the school board is allegedly next to a site that handles toxic and hazardous wastes, when such a site does not exist? Does she still maintain that, yes or no?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, yes, and I even have a letter signed by Mr. John Morand, chief administrator of the City of Kingston, who indeed confirms that a toxic waste site is right next to it.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in that case, how does the Deputy Prime Minister reconcile her statement supporting Kingston's obstruction, when her colleague, the heritage minister, gave a grant of over half a million dollars for the proposed francophone community cultural centre located on the very site condemned by the environment minister?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I think it is unfortunate that the Bloc does not accept the truth. The fact of the matter is that the hazardous waste site lies beside the one bought by the school board.

I would not like my daughter to go to school 1,000 feet from a site that is not only full of hazardous waste but also full of gas. It is a fire hazard.

The most important question, which the Prime Minister answered last week, was: Does Kingston want a French-language school? The answer is yes, and we want to have it as soon as possible.

Dynamic Maintenance Ltd.

[Ed Harper, Reform, Simcoe Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister.

Yesterday I raised some very serious matters relating to the parliamentary secretary for fisheries. As of May 24, 1994, the parliamentary secretary was still listed as an officer of Dynamic Maintenance, a position from which he says he resigned on December 1, 1993.

The parliamentary secretary's father and father-in-law are also listed as officers and directors of Dynamic Maintenance, a situation which would hardly qualify as an arm's length relationship.

Is the Deputy Prime Minister aware of these facts and if so, how can she explain this apparent violation of the conflict code?

[David Dingwall, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services and Minister for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency]

Mr. Speaker, I wish to inform my hon. colleague that the contract in question was consummated before the election. Eight bidders were involved in the process and it was whittled down to four. The successful bidder in this particular incident saved the taxpayers of Canada, which I assume is the goal of the hon. member, approximately $3.4 million.

The Deputy Registrar General of Canada has provided an opinion which clearly states that no conflict of interest exists in this particular instance.

[Ed Harper, Reform, Simcoe Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we have spoken to the B.C. ministry of finance and corporate relations and we were informed that until a person is delisted they remain an officer of the company. They also informed us that the records are up to date.

There are some very serious discrepancies which I think must be looked into.

Will the Deputy Prime Minister support a motion to refer this matter to the procedures and House affairs committee?

[David Dingwall, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services and Minister for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency]

Mr. Speaker, to the last part of the hon. member's question, the answer is no.

I find it rather insulting that the hon. member would stand in his place and question the integrity of the Deputy Registrar General who has given an opinion based upon the facts which have been provided to him that no conflict whatsoever exists in this particular case.

If the hon. member wishes to pursue it further, why does he not raise those substantive questions with the Deputy Registrar General?

[Ed Harper, Reform, Simcoe Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to quote the current Minister of Fisheries and Oceans from Hansard on April 30, 1986 where this comment was made in relation to the Sinclair Stevens affair: ``How blind can a trust be when a spouse is managing it? How many other members of cabinet have a blind trust being managed by their spouses?''

It is not much of a leap from spouse to parent, particularly when they share the same House. Can the Deputy Prime Minister explain if, under the Liberal version of ethics, a parent living in the same home qualifies as an arm's length relationship?

[David Dingwall, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services and Minister for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency]

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member has a substantive allegation to make, he should make it. Not only should he make it clearly and unequivocally in this House, but he should also go outside and make that charge in the national media. If he is not prepared to do that and if he is not prepared to consult with the Deputy Registrar General, then I suggest the

hon. member ought to exercise prudence as opposed to irresponsibility.

Private Meetings

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister. In response to a Canadian Press release, which did not accurately report comments claimed to have been made by the Leader of the Opposition at a private meeting with members of the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, the Deputy Prime Minister said that it was shameful for the opposition leader to hold secret meetings with small groups.

To be consistent, will the Deputy Prime Minister condemn the in camera meeting her Prime Minister held this week with a small Toronto Club group to discuss the government's economic policy?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order! I am not sure that the hon. members want to ask or answer questions on events taking place outside the House and which, in my opinion, have nothing to do with the administrative work of the government. However, if the Deputy Prime Minister wants to answer the question, she may do so.

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I said that it was shameful on the part of the Leader of the Opposition to hold private meetings on a secret agenda that he has not even discussed with his own caucus.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I see that the Deputy Prime Minister has a gift for-

[An hon. member]

Clairvoyance!

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

-clairvoyance. She sees and hears through walls.

Since the hon. member is advising the Leader of the Opposition to avoid meeting privately with small groups to discuss secret agenda, will she confirm that the Prime Minister of Canada did indeed have private discussions with a small group on issues which no one here knows, unless it is the hon. member, if she has a gift for clairvoyance? If she is in the know, she should tell us what the Prime Minister said during his private meeting with the small Toronto Club group!

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the difference between the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition is that the Prime Minister says the same thing in every part of the country regardless of whether the meeting is private or public. I am sure the member himself, when his leader promised he was going to resign the day after the referendum, would have wished to have been consulted on the secret agenda of his own leader.