Debates of Sept. 21st, 1994

Haiti

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, let us limit the debate to whether or not Canada is meeting its commitments to democracy and the support promised for President Aristide.

In this regard, if the government really played an important role, how could it let this agreement be reached with an impostor president, with no mention of President Aristide, who is supposed to be Canada's protégé?

In particular, I ask the minister whether he agrees with the clauses in the latest agreement that provide for amnesty, despite what was in the Governors Island Accord; according to our information, these clauses are the main obstacle to President Aristide's return.

[André Ouellet, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I find it particularly interesting that the Leader of the Opposition is now second guessing the actions of President Carter and the emissaries who at the very last minute obtained capitulations from the military junta.

What took place there at the last minute was that decisions were made by the Haitian junta to accept that multinational forces would arrive in Haiti without any confrontation in order to ensure that there would not be any loss of lives. That is what took place. Nothing else.

All the elements of resolution 940 will be carried out and will be exercised by the military forces that are there. That will ensure the speedy and safe return of President Aristide.

Collection Of Unpaid Taxes

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance. The Auditor General of Canada, Mr. Denis Desautels, is understandably concerned by the problems experienced by the government in collecting unpaid taxes. In the last five years, the amount of taxes owed by Canadian taxpayers has nearly doubled, going from 3.7 to more than $6.2 billion.

Will the Minister of Finance recognize that, before targeting the poorest ones through a social reform, he should first set up a more efficient system to collect the more than six billion dollars owed in taxes?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, I read the account by Norman Delisle in this morning's La Presse of the speech by the Auditor General, and I must say I was very encouraged and pleased by what I read. He has identified the close to doubling of the taxes owed during the last five years of the Tory administration of which my hon. friend has made mention.

He has made it perfectly clear that this is indeed an area which the Government of Canada must pursue vigorously to make sure that all Canadians pay their fair share of taxes and that the business community is faced with a level playing field so it does not have to compete for contracts against those who do not pay their share. It is clear that he has identified a problem which we have recognized.

I remind the hon. member that within three weeks of becoming minister I announced a major campaign in consultation with my friend the hon. Minister of Finance to make sure that we would be able to address these very problems that the Auditor General mentioned in Quebec City yesterday.

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the results are yet to come. The minister and his government were elected a year ago. Will the minister tell us why his government did not make as much effort to collect taxes owed to the Treasury as it does to cut social benefits through its upcoming reform of those social programs designed to protect the poorest ones in our society? Why did the government not make as much effort to collect those unpaid taxes?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, I mentioned that within three weeks of becoming minister we launched a major campaign against the underground economy and against those who are not paying their fair share.

I pointed out that this was an important initiative of the government. The member seems to have overlooked the fact that revenues are up dramatically for this period over last year and that a considerable part of this, approximately $700 million, is due to improved efficiency of collection. He has overlooked the fact that we are doing much better.

He has also overlooked the fact that the Auditor General in this article to which I referred earlier said the following:

The Auditor was very pleased by the decision of the federal Revenue minister to intensify measures to collect amounts owed to the Treasury.

Had the hon. member bothered to read the story and the speech of the Auditor General, he would have noticed that the Auditor General is congratulating us for the actions we are taking.

The Economy

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberal premier of New Brunswick has expressed the view that Canada will sink into a lower economic order if the federal government does not come to grips with the debt problem.

He says that the efforts of the provinces to control their spending are being held back by the federal government which has yet to show a clear demonstrable commitment to fiscal management that would inspire international investors.

The Prime Minister will not heed advice from members on this side with respect to this subject. He does not heed advice from the taxpayers and the investment community. Perhaps he will heed the words of his Liberal colleagues and provide a clear demonstrable commitment to sound fiscal management.

Will the Prime Minister publicly direct the finance minister to reduce the deficit, not by raising taxes but by further spending reductions?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, that is exactly what the Minister of Finance is doing.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister apparently has no idea of the uncertainty that these non-answers and political answers create with respect to investors and taxpayers.

Many resource companies, particularly in western Canada, are starting to make money for the first time in a number of years. They are in a position of trying to decide whether to invest those profits in Canada or take them elsewhere out of the reach of the government.

Since the Prime Minister, given his track record on this issue and the uncertainty, creates only more uncertainty by responding, will the finance minister clear the air by stating categorically that he is not planning any tax increases on the resource industry?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to know that the leader of the Reform Party is conceding that when we had a Conservative government even less right wing than his, business was not making money and with the Liberal government in power it is starting to make

money. It does not know where to invest it. It is better to have that problem than the problem it had with the Tories in government.

Talking about uncertainty I would like the leader of the Reform Party to be a bit objective. It is on TV every night and every morning that the Canadian dollar is going up. The interest rate is going down. The international community has more confidence in Canada than ever before. He should rejoice. That is simple.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

I read the papers, Mr. Speaker, but I am more conscious of the fact that the government is spending $110 million more per day than it takes in, and a lot of other people recognize that as well.

If the Prime Minister cannot answer this question with clarity and resolve uncertainty in the resource industry perhaps he can say something that would calm the uncertainty among RRSP investors.

Yesterday the Prime Minister would not give a straight answer on whether the government is contemplating a raid on RRSP contributions. These investors are already organizing themselves to oppose an expected tax grab while we wait for an answer from the government on how many more dollars will seek a safer haven elsewhere.

My question is for the finance minister if the Prime Minister cannot answer. Will he clear the air on this issue by stating categorically that he is not planning a tax raid on RRSP contributions?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, we have made it very clear that we are about to embark on the most comprehensive, deep consultative process in the budget preparation that has ever been done. There will be extensive opportunity for debate. We welcome that opportunity.

The challenge I lay before the leader of the Reform Party is to rise to that opportunity. Or, is the Reform Party going to do what it did in the pre-budget debate, what it has done throughout the summer, and that is refuse to be constructive, refuse to tell us what it would do and refuse to face the fundamental challenges facing the country?

Duplication And Overlap

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we now know that in five years, Canada has dropped from fourth to fourteenth place among the 24 OECD countries as far its competitive position is concerned, mainly because of the unprecedented extent of the federal debt, inefficient government policies that undermine job creation and, above all, the wasteful overlap in manpower training.

My question is directed to the Minister of Finance. Considering this disastrous state of affairs, what more will it take for the Minister of Finance to decide to make a move, act responsibly, eliminate the inefficiencies in federal spending and at last do something about duplication and overlap?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, we have every intention of dealing with overlap. In fact, the Minister responsible for Public Service Renewal has been given that role.

I may add that the problems are more fundamental and that we will have to deal with the loss of our technological edge, the manpower issue, and, of course, the issue of the debt. That is why the Minister of Human Resources Development is going to start on his program to restructure our social programs, why the Minister of Industry is going to start on his program to restructure industry, and why we intend to reach our objective of bringing the federal deficit down to 3 per cent of GNP.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, earlier I heard the Prime Minister refer to the Conservatives. I now hear the Minister of Finance saying exactly the same thing he said about a year ago.

Mr. Speaker, I will put the question to the minister: What has he done for the past year, aside from conducting some pretty useless consultations, to cut operating expenditures? What has he done to eliminate overlap and duplication? What has he done to help the government make a sensible decision, which would be to decentralize all authority over manpower training to Quebec?

Eight hundred thousand unemployed individuals are waiting for this to happen. They are waiting for the glimmer of hope that the Minister of Finance and the government are certainly not giving them. So what has he done? That is my question.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, what we did? Real growth was 6.4 per cent during the past quarter, the best performance of all our G-7 partners. Consumer spending was up 3.5 per cent during the first half of 1994. Exports were up 0.6 per cent in July, and I can go on.

The hon. member asked me what I did. Well, I am not entirely responsible for all this. The government is.

National Unity

[Stephen Harper, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, you will know there has been some debate outside the House this week concerning the date of a referendum in Quebec. You will also know that many Canadians, after 25 years, are sick and tired of this separatist merry-go-round.

I would like the Prime Minister to clarify for the House whether he has clearly communicated the position of his government, of the vast majority of members of the House and the vast majority of the population of Canada that the premier of Quebec should fulfil his commitment to have this referendum as soon as possible. What assurances has he received in that regard?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the answer is yes, and the commitment was not only in a private conversation. It was made public on the Wednesday afternoon during a press conference when Mr. Parizeau answered a question by a CBC radio reporter stating he was to fulfil his commitment. I took his word in the press as well as what he said privately.

I see that the Reform Party is trying to make money on that subject by having a 1-900 telephone number. It is pretty awkward for a political party to want people to express a view and pay money to the Reform Party on a divisive issue like this one.

It is unbelievable and not very ethical to take a controversial problem, one that is very divisive and ask the people to pay to make money for the Reform Party. I can understand why the Reform Party has problems with its funding at this time, if we judge it by its performance in the House of Commons.

[Stephen Harper, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary question.

It is in the interests of this party and should be in the interests of the government to get the views of all Canadians on the unity of the country. I am surprised that the Prime Minister does not want that.

Here is my supplementary question: Does the Prime Minister intend to contact officially the new Quebec Government to urge it to respect its commitment and hold its referendum as quickly as possible, on the simple question of Quebec separation?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I already called them, as I mentioned before in this House, and I made a speech in Quebec City, before the Canadian Chamber of Commerce last Sunday, so my message is well known. We want this question to be resolved in a civilized manner and quickly, so we can turn our attention to the other problems facing this country.

I would like to tell the hon. member that his party should have subscribed to a 1-800 number, instead of trying to make money with a 1-900 number. This is quite inappropriate.

Francophones In Kingston

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister. Once again, this year, Kingston High School students went back to school in shacks without running water or bathrooms because Kingston city council still refuses to let the school board build a school on its land.

On May 31, the Prime Minister pledged to help francophones get their high school without delay. In his opinion, is it normal for the school board to have to resort to the courts to have this fundamental right upheld? Given that the school will not be built soon, does the Prime Minister acknowledge that his May 31 pledge was nothing but hogwash?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have asked ministers who have Crown lands in Kingston to make a site available to the Kingston French-Language School Board to build a school, if it cannot come to an agreement with the city council. The Solicitor General and the Minister of National Defence have been trying to resolve this issue and we will find a suitable site if no agreement is forthcoming.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, does the Prime Minister recognize that the systematic obstruction and the obvious bad faith of Kingston city council confirm what the Commissioner of Official Languages said, namely that it will be extremely difficult to turn Kingston into a bilingual place respectful of the fundamental rights of francophones in this country?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we intend to take the necessary steps to ensure that Kingston college provides services in both official languages to all its students.

I am surprised to see how emotional these people who want to split Quebec from Canada and have their own army and so on can be. We will do what is good for Canada. We will make sure that anyone attending the only military college this country needs since we reduced our troops to 60,000-will be able to attend a bilingual institution, as required by Canadian legislation.

Canadian Security Intelligence Service

[Val Meredith, Reform, Surrey—White Rock—South Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Security Intelligence Review Committee has publicly stated that the Solicitor General will have sole discretion in determining the openness of the SIRC report on the CSIS-Bristow affair.

Will the minister assure the House that he will make the entire report public, excluding the identification of confidential CSIS sources, other than Grant Bristow?