Debates of Sept. 23rd, 1994

Gun Control

[John Bryden, Liberal, Hamilton—Wentworth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, a large number of legitimate gun owners gathered on Parliament Hill yesterday to express their concerns about the government's pending gun control legislation.

They listened to the assurances of the justice minister and, in their turn, submitted a lengthy petition of many thousands of names.

The time for the presentation of petitions yesterday had passed. I wish them to know that their petition was promptly given to the Clerk of the House to review it for possible presentation in this Chamber or for formal delivery to the Minister of Justice.

Team Canada

[John O'Reilly, Liberal, Victoria—Haliburton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, during the summer months our country hosted the Commonwealth Games. I am proud to say that Team Canada turned in its best performance ever. Our team won a record 128 medals: 40 gold, 42 silver and 46 bronze.

I would like to congratulate all Canadians who participated in the games. In particular, I would like to congratulate two of Canada's athletes who hail from my riding of Victoria-Haliburton in the province of Ontario. Nancy Sweetnam of Lindsay won a silver medal in the 400 metre individual medley and a bronze medal in the 200 metre individual medley. Linda Szulga, who hails from Burnt River, Ontario, won a bronze medal in the pairs smallbore rifle competition.

These women represented Canada with a great deal of class and sportsmanship during the games and sacrificed many hours to train for their event.

Once again I salute their achievements and urge all members to applaud the fine showing by Team Canada at Victoria in August.

The Environment

[Marlene Catterall, Liberal, Ottawa West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this government places a high priority on sustainable development, the joint goals of achieving a clean environment and a strong, internationally competitive economy.

That is why yesterday the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment and the Minister of Industry announced a new $57.5 million national strategy for the Canadian environmental industry.

The environmental industry strategy was developed after extensive consultations with the industry, with all levels of government and with industry associations.

This strategy will improve the access of the environmental industry to government programs and services, support cost effective technology development and commercialization, secure dominance in the growing Canadian market and increase exports of environmental technology.

Canada's industry has an important role to play in helping Canada achieve sustainable development, and the government is firmly committed to strengthening this sector of our economy.

Social Program Reform

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in a powerful report, the Council on Social Development expresses its concerns regarding the increasing poverty in Canada. The council concludes that although we may have to review our social programs they are still working. What is not working however is the labour market.

My question is for the person speaking on behalf of the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister.

[An hon. member]

Put your question.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I am just about to do so. I was looking about to see who could give me an answer, as there are not too many people in here this morning.

Does the minister not agree than instead of reforming our social programs, the government must put forward concrete job creation measures since, as the council pointed out, it is not social programs which are not working, but rather jobs which are lacking?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, I have a couple of points to make in response to the hon. member's question on behalf of my colleague, the Minister of Human Resources Development.

It needs to be pointed out, as the minister did yesterday in some remarks, that the report of the Canadian Council on Social Development covered a period of time that ended in 1991. Therefore some of its statistical information is more than three years old.

To be fully accurate any report on poverty must take into account the rapidly changing labour market, which I think is implied in the hon. member's question, and the need to direct young people into developing job sectors that have long term potential.

I am sure the hon. member will have noted, not only in our red book proposals from the election campaign of last year but also in the throne speech, in the budget and in all the activities of the Minister of Human Resources Development, that the entire focus was upon the growth of the Canadian economy and the creation of jobs for Canadians.

The statistics would show that in the first nine or ten months of our administration a very substantial beginning has been made. It is not nearly enough yet, but there has been very good progress at the beginning of the term of the government.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, could the agriculture minister explain how he is able to claim that a reform aimed at reducing costs by cutting social programs can create jobs?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, as the Minister of Human Resources Development pointed out on many occasions in the House, the objective of the reform process upon which he has embarked is to transform the Canadian system into one that prepares Canadians for the changing requirements of the job market.

Rather than acting just as a net to catch people when they need special assistance, it is transformed into a system to help them reintegrate into the workforce and be fully prepared for the job opportunities that must exist in the future.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, for a change in the social system , this is a real change indeed! In Quebec alone, there are 22,000 unemployed workers who are no longer eligible for UI benefits and the government reform is going to add thousands more to that number, forcing them onto welfare. In the past year, in Quebec alone, 20,000 more people have been added to the welfare roll. It is a real change indeed, Mr. Speaker.

Will the Prime Minister, or the Minister of Agriculture, recognize that the government itself is adding to poverty by making these unjustified and inhuman unemployment insurance cuts?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, the government's entire objective is to create economic growth and with that new jobs for Canadians.

It bears noting that since last November we have been successful in assisting in the creation of 275,000 Canadian jobs, including 79,000 in the province of Quebec.

Montreal Economy

[Roger Pomerleau, Bloc, Anjou—Rivière-Des-Prairies, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

The report of the Canadian Council on Social Development identifies Montreal as the Canadian city with the highest number of people living under the poverty line; 30 per cent of the population, or 386,000 households, live under the poverty line in Montreal. This is more than twice that of all the Atlantic provinces combined.

Considering how serious the situation is in Montreal, will the Prime Minister undertake to implement an economic recovery strategy for that city, because the temporary infrastructure program will clearly not be enough?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, the infrastructure program commenced by the government in literally the first few hours after we took office last November has been a remarkable success story with the mayors, municipalities and provincial governments virtually everywhere across the country.

The minister responsible for infrastructure could add more detail. However, as far as I know without exception it has been heralded as a good and successful program. It is serving a very good purpose in establishing jobs for Canadians in the short term period while that program is in place over a span of about two years.

More important, that program will renew and refurbish the physical underpinning of infrastructure in every province and in most communities from coast to coast in the country, giving us a modern infrastructure base upon which to build economic development for the future.

The benefit of the program is being felt in the city of Montreal, just as it is in my home city of Regina and in all communities in between. That was the first major initiative of the government with respect to economic growth and job creation for the future.

As the hon. member will know, we have many other plans in the development process at the present time. I think he will find as those plans come to fruition that communities such as the city of Montreal and all others in Canada will be able to feel the positive impact.

[Roger Pomerleau, Bloc, Anjou—Rivière-Des-Prairies, QC]

Mr. Speaker, does the Prime Minister intend to announce in the near future assistance measures for defence industry conversion, given that 10,000 jobs are in jeopardy in the Montreal area?

[Dennis Mills, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Industry is doing a whole range of activities that are relevant to the member's question.

In terms of the defence industry productivity program, we have undertaken a very aggressive review and restructuring of the program so that we will be able to leverage the limited resources we have in that fund and to assist defence industries in converting so they will be much more in touch with knowledge based industries that are emerging as a new job creation force.

We are also giving them added marketing in their conversion to new industries. We must never forget the fact that as a government we are leaning very hard on all financial institutions of the country to become much more progressive in their lending activities and their service activities for small and medium sized entrepreneurs. As a government we believe that is where our greatest hope for putting people back to work rests.

Registered Retirement Savings Plan

[Ray Speaker, Reform, Lethbridge]

Mr. Speaker, I raise a question today of major concern in the minds of millions of Canadians. It is about their savings; it is about their retirement.

My question is for the Minister of Finance. Why is the government considering taxing RRSPs?

[Doug Peters, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, I keep hearing about new taxes from the Reform Party. I do not hear the Minister of Finance discussing new taxes.

First I heard of a carbon tax. Now I hear of a tax on RRSPs. All these suggestions of new taxes come from members of the Reform Party and not a single idea on a cut in spending comes from them.

[Ray Speaker, Reform, Lethbridge]

Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary question for the Secretary of State for International Financial Institutions.

The Prime Minister, the Minister of Finance and now the minister responsible for financial institutions have been unclear, indefinite, and have not made a statement to the Canadian people indicating that the government is not prepared to tax RRSPs.

If the minister is so sure of himself, would he stand in his place and say to the Canadian people that there will be no taxation on RRSPs during the term of this Parliament?

[Doug Peters, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, as I am sure you know and as I am sure members of the Reform Party will find out with their experience in Parliament, new taxes are announced in budgets. The budget is coming down next February.

In the meantime we will put out a paper in the fall. It will be referred to the finance committee and we will be able to listen to all the ideas of the Reform Party in the finance committee about taxation proposals.

[Ray Speaker, Reform, Lethbridge]

Mr. Speaker, I could only conclude from the answer of the minister that the possibility of new taxes for Canadians is there and that we have to be concerned about it.

The minister recognizes that RRSPs are no different from other pension plans. RRSPs were created so that self-employed people in Canada could save for their retirement.

My question is for the minister. Is the government not only considering taxing RRSPs but also considering taxing government pension plans and private pension plans as well?

[Doug Peters, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, let me repeat that I keep hearing about new taxes only from the Reform Party. I hear about taxes on RRSPs. Now I hear about taxes on pension plans, on government pension plans, and I hear it from the Reform Party.

All these ideas about new taxes are coming from members of the Reform Party. Do they have a suggestion for cutting spending? Please let us have some ideas on that.

1992 Referendum

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, as he was leaving the House of Commons, the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs started his media scrum by stating: "The federal government owes nothing to Quebec". How arrogant! As for the Prime Minister, he keeps saying that he needs to get a bill before he can pay the Quebec taxpayers the $26 million he owes them.

The minister knows full well that the people of Quebec paid twice for the referendum, once for the referendum in Quebec and again for the one held in the rest of Canada. Why then persist obstinately in refusing to pay what they owe to Quebec?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, on October 26, 1992, two referendums were held in Canada: one under the federal referendum act and another, under Bill 150 and the Quebec referendum act. These are two different acts. For example, the residency requirements are not the same in the Quebec legislation as in the federal legislation. Therefore, there is no legal basis for paying the government of Quebec for holding a referendum under its own provincial legislation.

The issue being raised could only be settled if we had in our files a clear agreement to waive the application of the act. But there is no evidence of such a document.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, is the minister's response not proof in itself of this government's failure to recognize that Quebec is different from the rest of Canada? Is it not a tacit admission of the fact they are unable to accept this fundamental difference for one thing? Now, I would like to ask him: is the Premier of Quebec stating before the Quebec National Assembly that there was an agreement not sufficient proof of the existence of such an agreement? does the minister doubt the word of the former Premier of Quebec?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, in response to the first part of the hon. member's question, if Premier Bourassa decided to hold a referendum under his own legislation, he obviously believed it was for the best political advantage of both himself and the province to have a separate referendum.

As for the second part of the question, I cannot help but wonder: if an agreement did exist between Premier Bourassa and Mr. Mulroney, and then Mrs. Kim Campbell, why then did neither Mr. Mulroney nor Mrs. Campbell express their agreement or pay a debt they presumably undertook to pay?