Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to participate in the debate on second reading of Bill C-107 regarding the establishment of the British Columbia Treaty Commission.
The negotiation of treaties offers Canadians a chance to look at the issue not only from a historical perspective but also from a modern reality. The tabling of this legislation on the British Columbia Treaty Commission gives us an opportunity to discuss the implications and the importance of treaty negotiations in B.C.
Members from British Columbia, including my hon. colleague, the Minister of National Revenue, understand only too well the importance of these negotiations. The history of British Columbia and the various interests speak for a process, in a sense beg for a process such as this.
This legislation reflects not only how current treaty negotiations are done but how critical they are. The situation we have today regarding negotiations is much different than when the numbered treaties on the prairies were settled. It bears discussion on the kind of relationship aboriginal people across the country have with their treaties.
I stand in the House of Commons as a representative of the Government of Canada and as an elected member for my constituents. I stand here also as someone whose whole life has essentially evolved around the whole issue of treaties in terms of the kinds of inalienable rights that aboriginal people have discussed, debated and put on their priority list throughout the years of discussing the Constitution and land settlements. The treaties have always arisen as a major priority.
If people have a sense of passion, a sense of direction and vision about their interpretation of the treaties, it comes from the fact that it is a much analysed subject but also very personal. My grandfather who is a chief, Zaul Blondin, was a signatory to Treaty 11. In that signatory I see many things not just for me but for the future of my people. In relation to British Columbia I can see the same kind of intent, the same kind of compassion, passion, dedication and determination about the process when it relates to not just one group but all of the groups. My frame of reference is from my experience. My experience is from the perspective of the First Nations.
I know the numbered treaties for the First Nations I referred to in my area, 8 and 11 in the Northwest Territories, set a very interesting perspective for the future of a people; the Dene people guided by these two treaties, the language itself, the immense vision by the people who signed those treaties, the people who had the vision. It was not colloquial. It was not parochial. It was not odd and simple. It was very visionary.
This language, as long as the grass grows, as long as the sun shines, as long as the rivers flow and as long as this land shall last, are not just words. They have given the opportunity for aboriginal young people to have post-secondary education. They have given the opportunity for people of aboriginal descent, no matter where they live and who are treaty, to have accorded to them the appropriate health programs and services to deal with taxation issues, health issues, hunting and fishing rights and related issues and issues still debated like housing. Those issues are being constantly debated.
The numbered treaties in the prairies were signed in advance of settlement. The government of the day sought to ensure that certainty and title were confirmed before Europeans settled in what are now Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta. Although certainty was the intention, the issue is yet much debated, the treaty is much debated, and most of the results are as of yet lacking definition or implementation and are not at all conclusive. That also begs for a process and hence we have the British Columbia one.
There needs to be certainty. There needs to be very clearly spelled out the future for aboriginal people. I have a document
called "Sovereign Injustice-the Forcible Inclusion of the James Bay Crees and Cree Territory into a Sovereign Quebec". On page 5 it talks about the unilateral alteration of aboriginal treaties:
Existing land claims treaties provide for a permanent federalist arrangement and include federal and Quebec governments (as well as aboriginal peoples) as parties. How can the PQ government claim it would be legal or legitimate for a secessionist Quebec to unilaterally alter existing treaties with aboriginal peoples in Quebec? On what basis could Quebec claim it can simply take over existing federal treaty obligations and unilaterally determine that the Canadian government would no longer be a party to the treaties concerned?
That question has a lot to do with certainty. Aboriginal people feel this is their homeland. They have an inalienable right, as my colleague from Churchill indicated earlier on in debate, that aboriginal people feel they have an inalienable right to this country. They cannot be separated from this country because it was the creator who put them here. They did not come from somewhere else.
Treaties have a number of interpretations, some very spiritual. It is not only legal analysis, it is also a spiritual commitment, a spiritual determination that the aboriginal people have that relationship with treaties.
In British Columbia the situation was much different. Certainty over the land question was never resolved prior to settlement. As a result we are now dealing with a situation that presents challenges that did not exist at the time the early treaties were concluded. Much development has occurred in British Columbia. There has not always been that attempt for partnership.
In Canada and in the world there are no entities unto themselves that feel they can exist without partnership.
Aboriginal communities understand with good measure what there is to be gained from those partnerships and of working together with other groups which is happening across the country, including in British Columbia, in the Queen Charlotte Islands. In the Haida Gwaii we have the first ever bicultural model, a Haida Gwaii trust. This is a trust fund between non-aboriginal and aboriginal people that resulted from an arrangement that came about with the federal government, the provinces, industry, as well as the aboriginal peoples themselves.
These things can happen but they are not easy. No one will tell anyone familiar with the negotiation process that it is simple or easy. It is not. However it is necessary. It is necessary to go through rough waters. It is necessary to have a dialogue that is challenging.
One of these challenges is the need for the government to represent third party and public interest at the treaty table. Let me put it this way. Those third party interests in terms of the treaty negotiation advisory committee are well represented. The list was read previously by the member for Edmonton East. It explained there is representation and fairness there. There is nothing secretive or conspiratorial. It is an open process and very transparent.
Canada recognizes the need to consult with third parties and to provide information to the public if treaties are to be lasting and beneficial for all Canadians. Some of my colleagues and I have spoken on a number of occasions about the importance of an open treaty negotiation process. How can we best as a government address the challenges in the areas of taxation, health, education, justice, policing, hunting and fishing rights, to name a few, in a global sense without a proper process?
This year this negotiation process will lend to and aid this whole situation. Nevertheless, many people continue to falsely believe the treaty process in British Columbia is secretive, conspiratorial, that the whole truth is not being told and that a special deal is being made. This is not the case. This belief has been fostered by a lack of awareness, understanding, compassion and sensitivity. If those people were as informed as they should be this would not be the case.
Information is a great enlightener. It pays to read and it pays to go to the source to negotiate to be with those people. Go to the source and meet with those people. That is what this country is all about.
The negotiation of treaty under the auspices of the British Columbia Treaty Commission process is not one based on backroom deals or secrets. The treaty process has never been as open and as transparent as it is in British Columbia today.
In B.C. we have set in place a province-wide treaty negotiation advisory committee made up of 31 organizations representing major economic sectors in that province. There was a time when this group operated under confidentiality rules. This is not uncommon. It happens when people are dealing with issues they feel deserve that kind of arrangement.
Today, however, when providing advice to the government on treaties being negotiated under the B.C. Treaty Commission an openness protocol is at work. Many of the recent TNAC sessions have had and will likely continue to have media present. How much more open can it be?
On local and regional levels negotiators meet regularly with regional and local advisory committees to discuss the topics being addressed at the treaty table. Of course this is part of the consultation process and allows public and third party interests direct access to the negotiators. That accessibility is one way of demonstrating to people that there is not any kind of conspiracy or a cover-up. It is a partnership.
As far as actual treaty table talks, one of the items to be initially discussed during the readiness stage is the procedural document referred to as the openness protocol.
These openness protocols have been agreed upon by the three parties at the table, the federal and provincial governments and the First Nations. Many of the treaty table members of the public and third party advisory committees can, if they so desire, attend and observe main table negotiation sessions. So it is open and people are welcome to attend.
I know of one instance, the Sechelt treaty negotiations, where negotiation sessions are videotaped and replayed on the local cable station. I cannot imagine a more open process than that. I was in Sechelt in my previous incarnation, if I might, as the critic for the aboriginal portfolio for the Liberal Party. Their process on self-government, which is renowned throughout Canada and the world, has also been very open. The Sechelt people do not have anything to hide. They have a lot to be proud of and a lot to share, and they do.
I assure members the public has not been shut out of the process; rather, it has been invited in and encouraged to attend. We are well aware the treaty process cannot happen in a vacuum. The public and third parties need to know about and be involved in the process. We encourage their input and involvement.
This is a fairer process, much more acceptable than the kind of imposing process previously engaged in. Now it tends to be more of a partnership, one of equality. Maybe that is what is so objectionable to some.
There are many threads the negotiation teams need to weave together for the modern treaty process to work, including representing the Canadian public and federal government at the treaty table, balancing effective negotiations with openness, ensuring the consultation process is an accountable one, and providing the public and media with timely information. Under the B.C. Treaty Commission process all of these threads are coming together. We are only at the beginning of the process, but we are moving toward strengthening the social, economic, and legal fabric of British Columbia with regard to land claims.
In Canada the treaty process has a past that forms an integral part of our history. It has a present. Many of us here in the House of Commons have seen the passage of modern treaties, as in the James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement and the Inuvialuit Final Agreement. It has a future through the passage of legislation establishing the B.C. Treaty Commission and the negotiation and settlement of treaties under its auspices. That is why I am here today, to help usher in Bill C-107 and to ensure the job of treaty negotiations can continue in the province of B.C. so these negotiations can ultimately reach a successful conclusion.
I conclude by saying that treaty making is a world-known process. Treaty making is done between nations. Treaty making is done between various groups. It is an honourable process. It is not a process that begs criticism or any kind of misunderstanding. It is an honourable process. It is a process that will allow partnerships to develop. It is generally a process of honour that when you have made a treaty it will in fact help to deal with some of the tougher questions governments have to deal with. It solidifies for governments, for communities, for peoples the programs and services. The arrangements that are made become clearer. They should, anyway.
In the myriad of claims and the whole conglomeration of land questions regarding title in British Columbia, with the whole issue of hunting and fishing, fishing rights and the Sparrow case, let us hope this process will lend some clarity, some definition, some partnership that will allow these groups to come to some conclusion and reach some of the results that have long been sought after and long wanted.