Mr. Speaker, I too want to deal with Motions 21 and 22, but I do want to take issue with a couple of the comments made by the last speaker, the member for Kindersley-Lloydminster.
Earlier today we were talking about being reasonable in this House. We did in fact agree with some of the amendments put forward by the hon. member in the third party. After the comments he made in his last remarks, one would wonder why we would be reasonable. He commented that in putting amendments forward on behalf of the government the Liberal members merely put them forward and the lights went out. Those amendments had taken serious consideration of the discussions, what the department had said and what our members had said, the discussion that Reform members had brought forward before the committee. Those amendments were given due consideration and were well thought out and do indeed improve the bill, as do some of the amendments put forward by the third party.
He also alluded to, and I want to take issue with it, the remarks of the parliamentary secretary. I want to say, having sat in on those meetings, that the parliamentary secretary tried to provide the comments from the community. In response to the member that night, when Bill C-61 came out the department issued a release to quite a number of organizations that had raised concerns. It issued an overview of that particular bill. Having been a leader in the farm community myself for a number of years, I know organizations look at that overview, look at the draft legislation, and respond
accordingly. I believe they did have the opportunity to respond, and the parliamentary secretary was trying to outline to committee members the views of the community. I respect him for having done that.
I do want to say that we on the government side of that committee have considered these amendments very seriously, including those from the third party.
As to the motions we are now debating, I want to state that I oppose those particular amendments. The minister spoke earlier on another amendment and I think his comments apply to these particular amendments. The manner of appointments of members of the review tribunal by the governor in council that is set out in this bill follows a well established practice, endorsed by courts of law, of assuring the independence of the tribunal from outside interference.
This is what is so important in terms of the appointment of members to committees. I know from previous experience that there is nothing more difficult than appointing members and trying to do it in a balanced, fair, and equitable way. If we had members of the committee trying to push certain members to be appointed to committees for political or other reasons, we would be into very great difficulty indeed in terms of trying to find balance on committees.
In terms of appointments to tribunals and so on, the minister is always accountable and responsible. Therefore, he takes a great deal of discretion in terms of making those appointments. I can tell you that if the minister appointed the wrong individual, the first ones standing up in this House would be members of the opposition, complaining about that appointment and trying to hold the minister accountable and responsible. But how could the minister be held accountable and responsible for appointments pushed by committee members and sometimes by the opposition parties? I think that as a committee we would be in difficulty.
I know the intent of the member for Lotbinière is good. The objective he is putting forward is good. However, it is very problematic in terms of how it would work in practice. Let me give an example.
I am from P.E.I. and the hon. member is from Quebec and we both might be pushing two individuals for our own reasons for our own provinces. It could create confusion and problems on the committee. It would take a lot of committee time unnecessarily. I prefer the present approach: hold the minister accountable and responsible for those appointments. That is how it should be.
Let me make a couple of other comments in opposition to the amendments.
The bill does require that members of the tribunal have technical qualifications related to the area of agriculture and agri-food and are not in a position of conflict of interest relative to the matters before them. To ensure that people are not found to be in a conflict of interest, it means their backgrounds and résumés must be examined. It is much better to do that in a private forum, rather than in the public forum the committee entails.
Having the standing committee approve all appointments would raise a number of concerns. First, the time required to deal with the committee recommendations might add considerably to the length of time required to make the appointments.
Second, the committee might refuse to recommend any of the incumbents to these positions, effectively preventing the positions from being filled. As I mentioned earlier, the opposition to incumbents might be based purely on political reasons rather than sound judgment in terms of the ability of the individual to do the job.
Third, I think this kind of amendment would be a move toward a more American style of government. In the past we have seen what incumbents who are looking for positions go through when they appear before boards and committees. Sometimes individuals who could do an effective job are lost because of the process. I think that is wrong.
Finally, a committee debate on the selection of tribunal members could be conducted in public and might involve hearing witnesses, raising privacy concerns, and possibly deterring applicants from even considering sitting on these tribunals.
I know the amendments are put forward in good will. I know the intent to be more productive is there, but I believe they would be problematic. On those grounds, I oppose these amendments.