Debates of Oct. 27th, 1995

Referendum Campaign

[René Laurin, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

The hon. Prime Minister's, pardon me, Mr. Speaker.

[The Speaker]

Thank you, my dear colleague. You will address our colleagues by their proper and acceptable title here in the House.

[René Laurin, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am sorry.

The director general of elections for Quebec, Pierre F. Côté, criticized those offering paid holidays or lower priced tickets for demonstrations in connection with the referendum debate. According to him, it is making a mockery of the Referendum Act, it is a real expression of contempt. He went on to say that this sort of behaviour encourages civil disobedience.

How could the federal government itself contravene the Quebec Referendum Act by allowing subtle arrangements to be made for its employees to be away from work in order to go to a demonstration in Montreal without loss of salary?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, first, I will deal with part of the hon. member's opening remarks, when he talked about the statement by the Leader of the Opposition, which was made in 1988, that is, well after the start of the Meech Lake accord debate.

Here is a quote that indicates the transparency of his statements now. When Mr. Bouchard, when the Leader of the Opposition, pardon me, spoke on Wednesday, he spoke in French and English. In French, he said: "Alliances-thanks but no thanks". A total refusal. In English, he said: "I am deeply committed to this partnership". So, once again, when opening remarks are used to deliver messages, they should not be based on the misleading appearances created.

As regards the rally currently going on in Montreal, we must remember that Canadians and Quebecers are equally proud of demonstrating their patriotism in Montreal and are doing so on their own initiative. The federal government did not organize the gathering. It was born of a desire by Canadians, inside and outside Quebec, to express their pride in Canada, and the federal govern-

ment is not paying their way. On the contrary, a Treasury Board directive provides that, if they go, they must take leave to do so.

[René Laurin, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the alliances the hon. Leader of the Opposition was talking about were the alliances René Lévesque had had with the other provincial ministers before the night of the long knives. This is the sort of alliance the Leader of the Opposition was alluding to.

How does the minister explain that federal government managers were informed by telephone that they should allow their employees to go to Montreal after they signed an insurance form. Even this leave is paid by the government.

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, the federal government is operating today. Offices are open from coast to coast. In accordance with common practice which has existed for time and is in the collective agreements, if employees want a day off, they can ask for a day off.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

All together, all at the same time?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Yes, they can take it as a vacation day. They can take a vacation day if they want. They can do it today, on Monday, or any other time of the year, providing they get the permission of their manager. In each case it is a personal choice. Nobody is being forced to do anything.

A lot of people who work in the public service feel strongly about the country and want to be part of today's rally in Montreal. They are doing it all in accordance with the rules, practices and collective agreements of the federal government.

Health Care

[Sharon Hayes, Reform, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

Improving our medicare system is on the agenda of all Canadians. Reformers have proposed a series of constructive alternatives to solve the problems with our health care system for all Canadians. What changes are the minister and the government considering in the field of health care to make Canadians, including Quebecers, feel more at home in this Confederation?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, a lot of work is ongoing with the federal government in co-operation with the provincial ministers of health and their officials.

One which is ongoing is the work on the vision for the future of the health care system in Canada. Many actions are being contemplated. We are very optimistic that we can continue to deliver first class health care in Canada and that we can make that health care equally accessible to all residents.

Even people who live in Quebec appreciate our medicare system. They too are concerned that rapid changes would decrease their ability to access equitably a health care system when they need it. The government is committed to ensuring equitable access for everyone.

[Sharon Hayes, Reform, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, like Reformers, Canadians affirm the value of medicare. We desire medicare to be a core set of national standards. We desire a system that is publicly funded and universally accessible, regardless of one's ability to pay, but that system must make room for choice to be sustainable. Is the minister open to this kind of change?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, we are open to any kind of change that will make our health care system better.

We are committed to equitable access, access based on the need of the individual person and not on his or her ability to pay. That is one of the essential cornerstones of medicare in Canada. We believe it is that particular form of medicare which makes Canada the very best country in which to live.

Referendum Campaign

[Pierrette Venne, Bloc, Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

The Minister of Fisheries and Oceans has launched an operation to bring thousands of federalists from across Canada to Montreal. The government is even urging its employees to go there to put pressure on Quebecers under the pretence that they suddenly love them.

Does the minister not feel that the best way to show Quebecers they are loved would be above all to respect their laws, starting with the referendum act?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, once again, we did not organize the rally being held in Montreal. This spontaneous rally shows that Canadians from every region in the country are concerned about what is happening in Quebec and want to show their solidarity.

I am proud to belong to a country where all parties are so concerned by the situation in Quebec that they are willing to make an effort to travel to Montreal and to clearly express their feelings

toward Canada and Quebecers. Quebecers who, like us, are federalists and want to remain part of this country feel that other Canadians are expressing clearly the feelings we have always believed in, that is to say, they are supportive of Quebec, they are with us, and they want the No side to win on Monday so that our nation can continue to help and support its citizens.

[Pierrette Venne, Bloc, Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what better way is there for the federal government and the rest of Canada to show their commitment to Quebecers than to respect the democratic process, thus allowing Quebecers to make a decision on their future without any interference?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, since the only people the official opposition believes are those who share their views, I will point out that, in an interview he gave at Magnan tavern this week, the Leader of the Official Opposition stated very clearly that he agreed that people from the rest of Canada could come to Montreal because, as he said, they will be affected by the referendum result.

For once, the leader of the Bloc Quebecois is right, and he expressed this pride in being Canadian he had asserted so clearly in 1988. We are proud to belong to a country, a nation that is willing to give its more vulnerable parts a helping hand as a sign of friendship and solidarity.

The Environment

[Paul Forseth, Reform, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of the Environment.

On Monday and Tuesday the minister met with provincial counterparts in Whitehorse. The Canadian Council of Ministers of Environment has created a framework agreement to harmonize the provinces' respective roles. Canadians have a deep desire to see real co-operation.

Following the Whitehorse discussions, can the government tell the House what we can expect to see in respect of the environmental harmonization process being put into place with the provinces?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to report that my colleague, the Minister of the Environment, together with provincial and territorial environmental ministers, agreed to release a draft environmental framework. This framework has been released for public discussion.

Hearing the views of Canadians on whether this draft accomplishes our shared objective is very important in terms of a consistent high level of environmental protection.

[Paul Forseth, Reform, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, clearly there is a need for a new confederation, a balanced federation of provinces in Canada that the Minister of Environment should no longer resist.

The process of environmental harmonization has been going on for two years. Can the minister tell the House what the spectrum of changes the government is prepared to make to produce a genuine harmonious front to protect the environment?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, while there are often points of discussion, the environment ministers, for example, agreed unanimously to look at automobile emissions and regulations for cleaner gasoline. The federal government is committed to acting on these initiatives.

Meanwhile, the provincial ministers of the environment are also free to look at taking the actions necessary to protect the air that the people in their provinces breathe.

Unemployment Insurance Reform

[André Caron, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development. Yesterday, the CNTU revealed that the HRD minister's bill on UI reform does exist. And its provisions are identical to what has been leaked from various sources since June. The draft bill is dated October 10, 1995.

Will the minister admit that the bill on UI cuts is indeed ready, as evidenced by the existence of this document, and that its tabling is being delayed by the government to hide these cuts from Quebecers until after the referendum?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, we have been working on reforming the UI program, and in fact the social security system as a whole, for the past two years. We never hid the fact that we were putting our fiscal house in order and reviewing various social policies.

Regarding unemployment insurance, we announced in the last budget exactly what our plans were, and the Prime Minister stated in this House that a bill would be produced by the end of the year. Cabinet has not approved, passed or even seen the bill, and the document referred to may well be one of the many versions of the bill that could eventually be submitted to cabinet. This is a normal

process, one that does not involve cabinet for the time being and that must follow its course.

[André Caron, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we are pleased to hear the minister admit that the bill does exist.

Will the minister try to deny the obvious or will he admit that his bill will reduce UI benefits, exclude thousands of young people and women from the system, and put in place a two tiered system for seasonal workers? What is keeping the minister from admitting the truth? The imminence of the Quebec referendum?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, once again, the opposition is twisting my words. I said "may well be" because I do not know if the bill the hon. member is referring to even exists. However, I do know that it is only natural for us, after promising to overhaul social programs, including unemployment insurance, to be working on it.

No decision has been made so far. There is therefore nothing to say on this issue. It is clear that, as announced in the budget, a reform will take place to make the system more efficient and reduce the burden of government on Canadian taxpayers, including Quebec taxpayers. We urge the Parti Quebecois to put its fiscal house in order as we did with ours in the budget we tabled in February.

Quebec Referendum

[Sarkis Assadourian, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

On Wednesday President Bill Clinton stated that a strong and a united Canada has been a powerful and loyal ally to the United States and a model for the world on how people from different cultures can live in peace and harmony.

Would the Minister of Foreign Affairs elaborate on the president's statement? Also, would he address the comment made in the Wall Street Journal regarding the negative effect that a possible yes vote in Monday's Quebec referendum might have on NAFTA and our bilateral relationship with the U.S.?