Mr. Speaker, I begin my remarks by thanking the hon. member for Hochelaga-Maisonneuve for his proposed amendment. Clearly he has heard an argument that was made during the hearings of the committee that he believes has merit. Having said that, I will not vote in favour of his amendment. I believe the essential goal of the amendment has already been captured in the change which the committee made to Bill C-64.
The standing committee achieved the appropriate balance in the legislation. It responded to the essence of the points it heard on the issue. It did so in a way that is consistent with the spirit of the bill. There are many practical reasons why going further simply will not work.
We have often heard that justice must not only be done, it must be seen to be done. That should apply in the work of the new employment equity review tribunals. If we want the system to work as well as it must, then we should want the most competent persons to hear cases.
That becomes even more important when we understand how complex the cases that will come before these tribunals can be. They will often involve equity and human rights considerations. They will consider real world business practices and human resource management approaches. They will involve a careful assessment and balancing of needs and priorities. That demands a reasonable level of expertise in the members of a tribunal. Yet, as many witnesses pointed out, some members of the Canadian human rights tribunal panel have not necessarily had any real knowledge of employment equity issues in the past. They have not necessarily come in to cases with any expertise in workplace issues.
Some employer and labour representatives said this was no place for on the job training and yet that is what they have seen. They cited examples in which the individuals hearing cases clearly knew far less than the people appearing before them. The result was frustration, added cost and some doubt as to whether a truly just decision could be rendered. In the same vein, representatives of designated groups saw a need for tribunal members who were truly aware of their situation. They were concerned that tribunal members would not understand the barrier they faced and the need for action.
When we look at the committee's report we see that witnesses offered many suggestions on how to improve this state of affairs. This proposed amendment draws on some of those ideas.
The committee took a different course. I think it was a better course. It chose to amend Bill C-64 by requiring the president of the Canadian human rights tribunal panel to give due consideration to the expertise of individuals he or she might appoint to employment equity review tribunals. That amendment would give the president of the panel a clear direction without tying his or her hands.
In a way, that decision is consistent with the direction of the entire bill. The emphasis is on reasonable efforts to place qualified people in this role. It does not set a quota. It does not incorporate the labour relations based model into the process. It does not assume that there should be representatives of perspectives that are in probable opposition to each other. Moreover, it permits a flexible approach where appropriate. The goal is to appoint tribunal members who understand the issues and who can rule on them fairly.
Not only are there sound philosophical reasons for the House to support the committee's approach and to reject the amendment, there are sound practical reasons to do so as well. One of the most important pertains to the size of the tribunals. Tribunals do not have seven or nine people on them who can be chosen to fill certain quota needs. A tribunal will have either three or just one person.
If three persons are hearing a case, and that was the preference of the committee as hon. members may recall, how will the representation issues be resolved? That problem becomes unsolvable if a one person tribunal is established. Hon. members should remember that one person tribunals may often be appointed in less complex cases. In those instances, representation of designated groups, expertise and experience simply cannot be achieved in a fashion that most people will see as fair.
Clearly it is not possible to make a system of proportional representation work well for three people and it simply cannot work for one person. It is far better to concentrate on expertise and experience. In any event, representation is taking care of itself.
When Keith Norton, the president of the Canadian human rights tribunal panel, appeared before the standing committee he agreed that the tribunal should have membership from all walks of life. It would be similar to what we see happening across the judiciary. It is growing more and more representative of society all the time.
The committee has done its work and has done it very well. I commend its members for that work. Because of that direction I do not think we should support this amendment.