Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise to speak on the motion put forward by the hon. member for North Island-Powell River. I oppose the motion. I consider it to be ill-conceived. Why do I take that position?
The first reason is that the correct approach to the issue was set out by the government in its red book promises. In the red book the government made it very clear that if we were elected we would be committed to building new partnerships with aboriginal peoples based on trust and mutual respect. We stated in the red book what a Liberal government would do.
We stated that our goal was a Canada where aboriginal people would enjoy a standard of living and quality of life and opportunity equal to those of other Canadians. It would be a Canada where First Nations, Inuit and Metis would live self-reliantly, secure in the knowledge of who they are as unique peoples. All Canadians would be enriched by aboriginal cultures and would be committed to the fair sharing of the potential of our nation. It would be a Canada where aboriginal people would have the positive option to live and work wherever they chose. Perhaps most important, we set out our goal for a Canada where aboriginal children would grow up in secure families and in healthy communities with the opportunity to take their full place in Canada.
As a result, we also said that the resolution of land claims would be a priority. This is our vision and we have been moving step by step to bring it alive. In two years we have already made considerable progress.
On August 10 the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development and the federal interlocutor for Metis and non-status Indians announced the government's approach to the implementa-
tion of the inherent right of aboriginal self-government. We have fostered greater economic development opportunities for aboriginal communities through co-management agreements and support for business ventures. We have committed an additional $20 million annually to the Indian and Inuit post-secondary student support program. We have settled some 44 specific claims and we have seen five comprehensive claims come into effect. By any measure we have achieved a great deal in living up to the commitments we made to the people of Canada in the red book during the election.
Perhaps the most complex challenge to the government and to the people of Canada in this area is treaty making in British Columbia. I would like to remind the House that British Columbia is unique in Canada. If I could remind hon. members of the debate which was recently held in the House, it is a distinct society in this respect, in that the process of signing treaties has never been completed. Only a handful of treaties were signed in the pre-Confederation period and they cover parts of Vancouver Island only.
In 1899 Treaty No. 8 was signed with the First Nations in the Peace River area in the northeast of the province. However, in the rest of the province the issues of aboriginal rights remain largely unresolved. First Nations legitimately want to see a resolution to these issues.
We have repeatedly seen the First Nations of British Columbia press for treaty resolution. Until this decade, however, the provincial government had been unwilling to negotiate. It took the position that there was no need to negotiate because whatever rights to land and resources the aboriginal people may have had in British Columbia had been extinguished by an act of the crown.
The result was decades of legal acrimony. The First Nations first sought settlement through the courts of what they had been unable to achieve through the negotiation process. In 1973 the Supreme Court of Canada was asked whether the aboriginal title to the Nisga'a traditional territory had been extinguished in the Calder case. In that case the six judges were evenly split on the question. It fell on a very narrow technical issue in the way in which the case had been brought.
It was very clear from reading the judgments in the case that there was a recognition by the courts of the country of a legitimate claim to aboriginal rights in British Columbia which had to be addressed equitably if we were ever to resolve this extraordinarily important issue.
The courts for their part have expressed repeatedly and in the strongest terms that the issues brought before them ought to be settled at the negotiating table and not before the bar, settled through negotiations and not litigation. Many cases have determined this issue. I cite Judge Macfarlane in one who wrote:
Treaty making is the best way to respect Indian rights. The questions of what aboriginal rights exist-cannot be decided in this case, and are ripe for negotiation.
He went on to observe:
During the course of these proceedings, it became apparent that there were two schools of thought.
The first is an all or nothing approach, which says that the Indian Nations were here first, that they have exclusive ownership and control of all the land and resources and may deal with them as they see fit.
The second is a co-existence approach, which says that the Indian interest and other interests can co-exist to a large extent, and that consultation and reconciliation is the process by which the Indian culture can be preserved and by which other Canadians may be assured that their interests, developed over 125 years of nationhood, can also be respected-I favour the second approach.
I must say I agree. When I was in the private practice of law I had the opportunity of being involved in a case that was very interesting and very instructive in this area. It was the Baker Lake case. It took place in the Northwest Territories. The court also resolved and ruled that the applicants in that case had aboriginal rights, but the court failed to set out what those aboriginal rights were. It failed to set out what the specificity of those rights were.
Therefore the aboriginal peoples in the area were left with the unpleasant situation of knowing they had a right but not knowing whether they could exercise it in contradistinction against mining companies that might be in conflict with their claims and exercise it in contradistinction against other claims.
These issues cannot necessarily be settled by courts of law. The courts may lay out a general provision such as saying that there are aboriginal rights that have not been extinguished. That is a legal issue and an issue a court can rule on.
What is the exact content of those rights and how they will be applied in a modern complex society where there are conflicts between urban and rural uses of land mixed with that of the aboriginal peoples? They have to be addressed in the negotiating process. That is being sought in the circumstances. That is why I agree with what the judge said in the case to which I have referred. I am sure members of the House would agree that the co-existence approach, based upon consultation and reconciliation, is the appropriate approach.
I am sorry, I say to my legal fraternity friends, to suggest that court is not the place to be on this issue. There are places where we do not need lawyers and we certainly do not need judges to resolve them. We need the political will to have people sit down and resolve their disputes with a mutual trust and understanding among them.
It pains me to say that in the province of British Columbia today quality of trust is absent. I happen to come from Vancouver originally. I happen to have the privilege of going back to Vancouver regularly. I have seen the tremendous turbulent summer of pain and protest that took place last summer. These confrontations will not resolve the issues. It is only through negotiation and
mutual respect that we will be able to do that. It will not work through an all or nothing approach.
We cannot leave the resolution of the issues for those who have little respect for the law. That is what worries me about the resolution. It astonishes me that a member of the third party would bring forward a resolution suggesting that this issue be pushed over for a couple of years. Basically that is the suggestion.
I have listened to the passionate intensity with which members of the third party speak in the House about the rights of their constituents, about their need to defend their constituents, and about how their rights are not being properly regarded by the government and by the ways in which the laws of the country apply.
What would they advocate to their constituents about the resolution of their essential rights, how their lives will be conducted and how they will be able to earn their living? These rights have been in abeyance in some cases for 30, 40 or 50 frustrating years. Would they go back to their constituents and suggest that they just sit still and put this off? I find that difficult to believe. I do not believe they would do that. What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. We should not be treating the aboriginal peoples of the country or of the province of British Columbia any differently than we treat other citizens in this respect.
We have a B.C. Treaty Commission. It establishes a solid foundation for consultation and reconciliation. At the heart of its operations are the coexistence approach and consultative approach. There are those in the House and those in the community who would maintain that the process concedes too much to First Nations. This too is starting to sow discontent.
I have heard radio shows in British Columbia. I have heard members say that 100 per cent of the province is covered by claims of the aboriginal peoples. However hon. members know better than this. We all know that claims are one thing, but to exaggerate them as a threat to the existence of the process is irresponsible. Claims are one thing. They are put forward but they can be resolved not necessarily in a court of law but in a framework of consultation, mutual respect and a desire to achieve a result that will be beneficial for all parties.
If that approach is taken, rather than an in terrorem approach of having huge claims, of the whole province being swamped and taken away from us, we would move toward a much more satisfactory resolution of the issue.
We know there are overlapping claims. The commission knows that is the case. They can be dealt with. We will not move forward by leaving the issue fester for another two years, until after another provincial government election; pushing it off into the future; and allowing the distrust, mistrust and exaggerations on both sides to prevail.
For those reasons I urge the House not to adopt an all or nothing approach. We should give to the British Columbia Treaty Commission its right to facilitate modern day treaties, to assess the readiness of parties to begin the negotiations, to allocate negotiation funding to aboriginal peoples, to assist parties to obtain dispute resolution services at the request of all parties and to monitor the status of negotiations.
In that way we could move the issue onward and start the process of achieving an equitable, just and lasting resolution of an issue that is extraordinarily important not only to the citizens of British Columbia but all citizens of the country who wish to see a harmonious social climate in which to operate.