Mr. Speaker, what I challenge is that the government, our Prime Minister and our finance minister go
on national television with the leader of our party and our finance critic and talk about and compare the two budgets, the budget of the finance minister and the budget that we are going to put out as an alternate. I challenge them to compare those in front of the Canadian people. That is what has to be done.
Let us go back to some of the history behind our problem. I have heard a lot here today. I have not heard a lot of people who seem to really understand very much or certainly could not communicate it to the people who really matter, the taxpayers.
In 1945 we had it pretty good. Europe was in shambles. Asia was in shambles and we were able to grow. We had no competition and we learned the good life. By 1965 we were well into the social experiment programs that we now all feel are threatened and are threatened because of the serious problem we are in.
We allowed government to replace family. We allowed government to replace individual initiative and we said government will take care of each of us. We will lead this good life. We will never have any problems.
What also happened then was that the other parts of the world rebuilt and started to compete. As they started to compete we had a cash shortfall. We had developed a system that we could no longer afford and therefore we started to borrow.
We continued to borrow. Members know where that has taken us today. We have a crisis. In 1984 we said we must change this government. Right across this whole land everybody said we have to change it. Except for a few of those sure seats, the Liberals were literally annihilated.
The belief was that the $289 billion would be dealt with and it would be dealt with now. By 1988 it was up over $390 billion and we were told we did not have time, it was a worse mess than we thought it was, et cetera. However, we were no longer believers in that sort of analysis, and so the birth of our party.
In 1993 we had a $489 billion debt and we were told the Liberals will come up with a plan, and so they did. From October 25, 1993 when the debt was $489 until the budget comes out this month it is going to be $550 billion. We have added another $61 billion to our debt. That is totally unacceptable. The people of Canada will not accept that. They are demanding that action be taken.
It is not good enough to say we will just add another $100 billion and then we will plan to get it under control some time in the future. That is not good enough. We have precipitated a crisis which we are being told about. The dollar is a good indicator. It was about 80 cents U.S. a year or so ago. Look where it is today and where it is going. We know where the interest rates were and where they are going today. Those are simply symptoms and warnings that we had better take action and it had better be soon.
The biggest threat to our social programs is from this debt and that is why we must deal with it. We must passionately convince the government that it must deal with it.
The double talk we have heard today, I am glad it was not from the finance minister or people from the finance committee. Hopefully they understand things better.
We are going to lose pensions, UIC, social programs and education. All of those things are going to be threatened. Not because of any party or because some members take the slash and burn position. They learned that about a year ago and they have not stopped saying it. We are going to lose those programs because of the debt and those interest payments. Then what happens?
There is foreign control. I think we should talk about that. We should look at what just happened to Mexico. Mexico has lost its sovereignty for probably 50 years into the future. Does Canada want to lose its sovereignty? Does Canada want to give up its control of water? We have to look at all of those things. Our sovereignty is being threatened by that debt and deficit.
What do our good friends across the way propose? They have floated trial balloons. They talked about raising gas prices 1.5 cents per litre. That should hit just about everyone, including those poor families trying to earn a living. It is going to hit everybody. That comes from the finance committee.
Taxing RRSPs, that is pretty good. We are encouraging people to take care of themselves and all of a sudden we are going to tax something that goes against this. Dental and medical plans, surtaxes and surcharges on income. Changing the GST to a VAT. Are we going to change that? How high is it going to go? A lot of people predict it will go to 12 per cent. Maybe 15 per cent would be a better number. That is going to hit everybody, not just the rich we so often hear about.
What about a carbon tax? Give it any name you like, I do not think it is dead yet. If any kind of unity is to be promoted in this country it had better be put to rest once and for all.
What are the solutions? There has to be a light at the end of the tunnel. There has to be. That cab driver we talked about has to know there is a solution. He cannot simply say there is no hope, I hate politicians, I hate politics, I have no use for them all. In a couple of ridings only 30 per cent of people voted. That is a disgrace. That is the frustration of people who are saying it does not matter anymore, you are all the same, you are not dealing with the issue. That is not fiscal management. That is no management at all.
The money markets are telling us very clearly to get our act together. They are telling us by the dollar. They are telling us by interest rates. They are telling us to cut spending, do not raise taxes, do whatever to encourage the country but do something.
The public is telling us a lot also. Listen to the messages the public is getting. On February 11 in the Vancouver Sun , a quote from the revenue minister: Protest all you want, Canadians, but you are not going to change the final look of the coming federal budget''. They are saying that they will listen to what the people are saying, but here is someone saying:Protest all you want, Canadians. We are not going to change our minds. We are not going to listen to you''.
We might just ask the member from Transcona what message the people gave him in Winnipeg the other day as they drove him from the stage. What was the message yesterday? What was the message in Toronto? What was the message in Vancouver? What was the message in Halifax?
The message is for the government to get its act together and cut spending. We hear: "Yes, we are going to. Yes, we will". We have heard that before. We have heard that for years and years and it has not happened. The public is saying that the government should cut spending, stop listening to special interest groups and stop waste.
I knocked on doors in some of the poorer sections of Montreal, for the benefit of the member who was talking about that, and the universal thing everybody said was: "Get rid of the Senate. Get rid of that waste. It is an embarrassment". I should have said the other place. They asked us to get rid of it or change it because it is not working.
Another item was MPs' pensions. They asked us to have the courage to lead from the top. They want us to do something and not get stand around making promises. For 15 or 16 months we have been talking about doing something. We cannot go after the public of Canada without doing something here.
They are asking us to do something about the perks and the GST the Liberals promised they would change. How about the international travel that goes on in this place and the parliamentary associations that are going on junkets every other week, heading off all over the place and maybe taking their wives for cost? That touches a nerve ending. Nobody wants to talk about it because it is something we can get away with; it is one of the perks because we have such low pay.
We could try to tell the poor people about whom the minister was talking about the pay MPs receive. How about the eight or nine levels of management versus those levels in a company? Companies right sized long ago. Companies got down to two or three levels of management. I challenge anybody here to go to big corporations and ask them how much management they have. They have two or three levels while this place has eight or nine levels of management protecting themselves. They are not going to be cut. A few at the top will go but they will not be cut down to anything.
Let us look at the other waste that goes on here. All of us go downstairs in the Confederation Building. Has anyone ever wondered why we have a round of marble seven feet in the air in the new renovations over there? Does anyone know how much marble costs? Why is it there? It is there because the bureaucrats are not use to trying to save any money.
A lot of waste goes on in this place. Let us talk about it. Anything would be better than the kind of waste we have. That is what taxpayers are demanding. They want us to get waste under control. The public has lost confidence in the government and politicians. It is saying that we should cut spending and have no new taxes. That message is everywhere.
That message is not just in Canada. That message is in all democratic countries around the world. They are sending the same message. We can learn that lesson. There are lots of places from where we can take examples. People are demanding results. People have finally taken control of the situation.
What would happen if we had a government that would listen and bring about those massive spending cuts that are essential and eliminate the waste that is going on? We would have the confidence of the people, of businesses and of international investors. We would have jobs. We would have growth and the economy would boom. There would be extra income, more money coming in from taxation, and we would be able to start dealing with the real problem, namely our huge debt.
Above all, to get the trust of the general public of Canada back we must enact legislation, a taxpayer protection act that puts a cap on government spending so that this can never happen again. We can never let government do this to the Canadian people again. We have had 30 years of this and it has to stop.
Let us examine what might happen in this situation. There has been a lot of speculating on the other side so I will speculate for a minute. Look at the old line parties first. Let us start with the PCs. To examine the PCs there are three books that might help us. I would suggest that Beyond the Law might be a place to start. On the Take might be another interesting piece of reading. Underground Nation by Diane Francis might be good reading too for finding out what has happened because of extra taxes. That pretty well takes care of the PCs. I guess last night confirmed that.
What about the Liberals? The Liberals started this whole thing. Of course they still feel good and are happy. They are saying: "Maybe we can grow our way out of this problem. It should be fine. Hopefully we will be okay".
Then we have the NDP. Its socialist Utopia has not worked any place in the world so we can dispel that.
We know the Reform Party must be different. We have a situation wherein it is the people versus the elite. Who are the elite? We have talked about the elite a lot before. It is the national media. Certainly it is the old line political parties, the bureaucrats at the top and in many cases big business and banks. Those kinds of people are all part of the elite.
What are the people saying about all of this? They are saying: "We won't take it any more. If you keep spending you are going to pay". The message should be loud and clear. The people's power should be obvious to everyone here but it is not. The last message was in the referendum. The elite to the very last person said: "Vote yes. It will be good for you". However the people said: "No way". The people found out about it. They worked on it, got information and made their decision. They were not heard that well, though.
In 1993 there was another message. We know what that resulted in. What do we have to look at? The people are saying reduce and the government is saying increase. On pensions the people are saying eliminate and the government is saying modify. On the Senate the people are saying abolish and the government is saying ignore and promote. On RRSPs the people are saying raise and promote and the government is saying: "Maybe we will tax them". On jobs the people are saying: "More money should be in the hands of people" and the government is saying: "We will have infrastructure and more bureaucracy. The government can, after all, still take care of you".
In conclusion I quote from Terry Moore, a radio announcer in Calgary:
We have had it, and you have got to get a handle on this and attack the debt and deficit in Canada and quit playing political games with our future, our children's future, our grandchildren's future and our great-grandchildren's future-because if you don't pull it together, this country will go down the tube.