Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for his thoughts on my presentation and for his question.
I will try to address my answer to the issues he raised in the same order that he did. As to the transfer of 16 and 17 year olds under Bill C-37 to adult court, he is quite correct. The onus is on the individual, on the young offender, to apply and give reasons why he or she should be kept in youth court.
As a previous speaker noted, there is also the facility that came forward by way of an amendment when it was at committee stage where the prosecutor and the defence attorney can get together and make that decision before it comes to court. This leaves the whole thing open to exactly what we have seen in cases of plea bargaining. It is of real concern to us.
As I stated in my speech, 16 and 17 year olds should not be given that option. At 16 years old, these children know exactly what they are doing. They should know the consequences of committing that crime. Therefore there should be automatic transfer with no chance to be tried in the same youth court that would try a 12-year-old.
As far as the comment about the sentencing provisions of Bill C-37 that double the sentence, my understanding is that Bill C-37 only doubles the sentence for murder.
As I said also in my speech, the sentence goes from five to ten years. I personally believe that for first degree murder, 10 years is not long enough. It certainly is not when one looks at the maximum. It can be six years in closed confinement and four years in open.
As to the comment about the community service, certainly I support that concept. I referred to it in my speech as well. We have to have all the forces that can be brought into play. That is not the answer in all cases.
The wilderness camps are not the answer either. Closed confinement is not the answer for everyone. We have to look at a wide range. However, the concern that members are hearing from Reformers is that there are those individuals out there who constantly flaunt the law.
Mr. Speaker, I am sure you are familiar with a case of three young offenders last spring in Edmonton who broke into a young family's home. They knew the family was at home. The young mother woke up and disturbed their burglary. They could have ran. She was no threat to them. However they had absolutely no respect for law or even for human life. They cold bloodedly murdered her. They stabbed her to death.
That is why Reformers say we have to get tough with these people. We have to send a message that our society is not going to condone that type of behaviour.