Mr. Speaker, there is a list in our budget document that explains in detail our proposed cuts and the background supporting information on why it is necessary to make cuts in those areas. As we go through our debate today these numbers will be presented. They are here to read. Surely Liberal members can read as well; I believe they can.
The hon. member for Malpeque talked about Reform draconianism. I want to talk about that. The reality is that if we continue down the path we are taking now with government overspending to the tune of $38 billion this year and a debt of $550 billion, we will lose the bulk of social programs.
Which is more draconian: losing the bulk of social programs or reducing spending on social programs by $15 billion out of total government spending of about $155 billion in that area, that is reducing federal and provincial spending together to about $140 billion? Which is more draconian: saving social programs and targeting them to the people in need or losing them?