Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to go over the whole decentralization approach for the second time, an approach on which the Liberals and Reformers agree. It is how they see decentralization. They tell us that they will let the provinces manage social programs.
They mention natural resources. I would remind my colleague that, under the constitution, some if not most natural resources should come under provincial jurisdiction, just like health and education. How generous of them to tell us that they will let us manage these sectors in the future.
They tell us we should be happy that we will now be responsible for these sectors. We would also like to have the revenues to manage them. They cannot transfer expenditures without the revenues that go with them. While the federal government continues to collect taxes as in the past, it will transfer responsibilities but less money. They will tell us about their flexible federalism, which left them broke so that they will now return the favour by aggravating our difficulties.
In addition to giving us administrative responsibility, they will give us jurisdiction, and then impose national standards. They say that in their paper. They say "in co-operation". Talking about federal-provincial co-operation is all fine and well, but we know who always ends up setting national standards.
They also say in their paper that equalization payments will allow all provinces to meet these national standards. Their figures say the exact opposite: we cut your transfer payments and equalization but maintain the same standards. There is something wrong with their logic.
A little further, there is a statement about health care. It seems national standards would only apply to essential medical services. There is no explanation of what that means.
This is hardly decentralization. Real decentralization involves providing financial resources in amounts that are equivalent, sufficient and fair-take your pick.
There is another element missing from this document. In economics, it is very difficult to do an accurate assessment of the mathematical impact of a measure. Economic forecasts are a good example. People think economics is an exact science. Making an economic forecast is like predicting that, when I leave the House, I will either go straight ahead, to the centre or to the left, but since around noon I usually have lunch at the cafeteria in the West Block, it is far more likely I will turn right. On the basis of a number of set assumptions, one can say yes, he will turn right. However, anything can happen.
The document fails to consider some of the more predictable consequences of cuts in welfare payments and unemployment
insurance. This money is often recirculated into the economy. People who receive welfare payments do not keep the money. They spend it. So if we cut those payments, we get the so-called negative spiral effect on the economy, and the document fails to factor in the negative impact of these cuts.
We cannot cut $15 billion in our social programs without affecting government revenues. No way. These people buy things, and the store owner uses that money to buy what he needs. That is the positive impact of dollars that circulate. Dollars that no longer circulate, that are kept by the government to reduce the deficit, have a negative impact. This aspect of the issue seems to have been ignored.
I am not saying that we should continue going into debt. I am merely saying that the negative impact of the proposed cuts has not been evaluated. I am convinced that their proposal would not lead to a balanced budget.
As for the suggestions made by the Bloc, I am sure we were agreed on one of them, the one involving business subsidies. We talk of cutting the government's administrative expenditures where overlap exists, senseless expenditures-the Senate could be completely abolished, we would not be sorry to see that, but that will be debated after we are gone-collecting unpaid taxes, the defence department, and so forth.
We are ready to consider tax expenditures, but they do not believe in such things. They think that there are only budgetary expenditures. Some expenditures are tax expenditures. Is a box at a Toronto Maple Leafs or Montreal Canadiens game a revenue generating expenditure which should be a tax deduction? I have my doubts. The tax system could be tightened up.
But there is no mention of revising anything, of changing anything to do with taxes because they are afraid-these people are very fond of such measures which allow them to make taxes less progressive. Our progressive tax system is diminished by such taxation measures. At a certain level of income, it becomes difficult to maintain the progressive nature of the system because people use the tax system to circumvent it.
This cannot be changed, these are the same people who advocate a flat rate of taxation across the board. That is their idea, it is part of what they are demanding. This is all based on a peculiar vision of society which does not allow for any redistribution of wealth whatsoever, and that is its greatest fault.
I would like them to show me how they would redistribute the money, how they would narrow the gap between high income earners and low income earners which has grown steadily in the last fifteen years. Why is this not mentioned in their document? Redistribution is not one of the Reform Party's priorities, so it is not mentioned.
It is clear and quite plain that we will never get involved in a program like that. There are other ways of going about things. All it takes is a bit of imagination and to stop repeating the theories of right-wing economists.