Madam Speaker, I will not take the same amount of time as the member for Kingston and the Islands, since, in general, he summarized quite objectively the work of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.
Apart from the final part of his speech, which was more of an exchange with the Reform Party than a direct statement on the report tabled, the member for Kingston and the Islands provided a very accurate description of the situation and the proposed amendments.
I would point out that the official opposition participated fully in developing the proposal, which will eventually be submitted to the House, once the report is adopted, so that we will end up with the best possible legislation. We have demonstrated the seriousness of the parliamentary work that all members of this House are called on to perform, even though the aim of our
political party is to ensure this act does not apply in Quebec and that we will not be covered by it in the next federal election. However, we took part in the committee's work and we took our job seriously.
I will come back in a few minutes, in order to complete the picture, to one or two items the member for Kingston and the Islands did not mention in his statement.
I too, of course, would like to thank the member for Kingston and the Islands, the member for Kindersley-Lloydminster and the member for Calgary West, who contributed in a generally non-partisan way to the work that, while not without its flaws, produced excellent results.
I would also like to thank those who helped us, particularly people from the office of the chief electoral officer, namely Jean-Pierre Kingsley, himself, as well as Jacques Girard and Carol Lesage, who provided incredible and ongoing assistance whenever we sought their help and cooperation. I would also thank colleagues who came to Ottawa in June and July, in the height of summer, to make representations before the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.
Where I have more of a problem with the bill that will eventually be tabled, the draft prepared by the committee, is that absolutely no discussion of miminum representation for Quebec was permitted. We ran headlong into the great wall of China in trying to discuss the question of a guarantee of 25 per cent of seats, raised by Senator Rivest when he appeared in June. The idea was that Quebec could never have fewer than 25 per cent of the seats in the House of Commons, because it would lose its power of influence over decisions being made.
Needless to say Senator Rivest is not known as a sovereignist, at least not from the old guard. His point of view was to a large extent taken up by my colleague, the hon. member for Mégantic-Compton-Stanstead, when he appeared before the Committee on Procedure and House Affairs in July, stating that a constitutional guarantee was required to ensure that Quebec's current 25 per cent of seats be retained regardless of possible fluctuations in its population.
We would of course like to resolve the issue of Quebec's representation in this House in an altogether different manner. But, should Quebec continue to require representation in this House, this critical mass must be recognized, and it is in this sense that all of our colleagues in the House must recognize it, as must Quebec's population in general. While commissions are currently examining Quebec's future, we have not been able to convince our colleagues to subscribe to a proposal guaranteeing 25 per cent of seats to Quebec.
We have a better understanding of the situation in which we find ourselves, that is to say, we are at a juncture where a decision must be made in Quebec between attaining sovereignty, controlling our own laws, creating our own legislation, collecting taxes and signing our own treaties or, on the other hand, becoming a member like any other in the Canadian federation. This will be the true test in the next referendum in Quebec. And Quebecers must know what system will govern them if the outcome of the referendum in Quebec is negative. We can see it already, the slightest request such as this has been denied. The need to guarantee a minimum level of representation for Quebec in the House was not acknowledged. This had to be said at this stage.
Another point made in the report tabled by the member for Kingston and the Islands pertains to so-called special ridings. Under present legislation, provincial commissions may consider special circumstances and allow for greater fluctuations in a riding's population than provincially allowed. Thus if we take the classic example of a riding with 100,000 voters, the number of voters could currently vary from 75,000 to 125,000, given the 25 per cent deviation allowed. But, as it stands, the current legislation grants provincial commissions the discretion to take special circumstances into consideration, for example, the riding of Labrador, which does not meet the electoral quotient, and Îles-de-la-Madeleine, which, as it was mentioned several times in committee, may not meet it.
This will no longer be possible in the future, since a provision stipulates that special cases will have to be listed in a schedule to the bill. For reasons which are debatable, the committee chose to adopt such a schedule blindly, that is to say ridings to be listed in the schedule were not debated in committee. This could be a valid way of doing things; we will see as we go on.
However, what the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs should be doing, in my opinion, is undertaking far-reaching consultations, not just reserved for parliamentarians. It is all well and good that the hon. member for Labrador make representations, for example, that his riding be included in the schedule or that the hon. member for Bonaventure-Îles-de-la-Madeleine make representations that Îles-de-la-Madeleine recover the independent riding status it enjoyed before 1968.
But in my opinion, the committee should open its consultation process up to the community and allow the local population and others to state their opinions. It seems obvious that the ridings of Labrador and Îles-de-la-Madeleine should be allowed to elect a member although their populations are lower than what the act stipulates, and it may well be that, for very special reasons, people elsewhere in Canada may reasonably argue that their ridings should be listed in the schedule. For the schedule to truly reflect the wishes of the people and for the members of this
House to truly understand those wishes, the consultation process must be opened up.
If it turns out that it is impossible to hold open hearings for all members of the public to air their views-and then we would have to find some other suitable means-I suggest that we revert to the current procedure whereby provincial commissions are granted the discretion to take special circumstances into consideration. And in cases like Labrador, Îles-de-la-Madeleine, maybe Manicouagan and the Gaspé Peninsula, they should be able to allow a deviation of more than the proposed 25 per cent which has been the generally accepted criterion since 1964, when the independent commissions were created and the House stopped drawing up the electoral maps.
At any rate, we will have the opportunity to discuss this issue again before the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, and to find the best possible solution.
It was mentioned earlier that the population would be consulted more. Yes, there will be more public consultation, and that is normal because the electoral map is designed first and foremost for the people and not for the elected members of Parliament. Everyone agrees with this principle, including myself. Just as electoral laws are designed for the voters and not for the elected parliamentarians. We are the ones who must meet these criteria.
The process for designating provincial commission members was greatly improved. The process now taking place behind closed doors will be replaced with a much more open process in which the members will be appointed jointly by the Speaker of the House and the province's chief justice. There may even be a parliamentary debate if at least 20 members of this House request it. We think that opening up the process is an excellent thing.
The Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs discussed for several months the issue of limiting or reducing the number of members in this House. This proposal was particularly favoured by our colleagues from the Reform Party.
Basically, we agree with the proposal to reduce the number of members in this House. However, we do not look at the issue in the same way. Of course, we in the Bloc Quebecois want to cut the number of members in this House from 295 to 220, simply by removing the 75 members from Quebec who will leave this House after the referendum.