Is the gentleman from Wild Rose not interested in what one of my constituents said? Would he deny that constituent the right to be heard here through me?
One of my constituents called and said, "Simmons, did you really clap for that budget? Did you applaud that budget?" I proceeded to tell him why, indeed, I did clap for the budget. I started by saying: "Is it the best thing in the world? Is it what we would really have liked to have done if circumstances were absolutely right? No". Then I put it to him in terms of his family budget. I said: "What a great morning it would be if you could get up and say to your wife, `This month I have a plan. We are going to buy that Cadillac we have always wanted, the yacht and the extra skidoo"'. She would say: "How are you going to do that?" "We are just going to borrow more. Whatever we need we will borrow."
Contrary to Reform doctrine there is nothing particularly sinful about borrowing. If so, many millions of Canadians sin every day on that score. Borrowing is not to sin. Being unable to pay back the loan is a sin.
The credo that says that somehow it is a great crime to borrow is not the issue and that is not what I was saying to my constituent. I was saying that it is a sin if we borrow beyond our capacity to pay back. As I took him through the example I said: "Suppose you say to your wife that you are going to buy the Cadillac, the skidoo, et cetera, and she asks how you are going to get the money and you say, `We will borrow more. If that is not enough we will borrow more after that"'.
Eventually, of course, he put the question to me: "Do you have to pay it back?" I said: "Forget paying it back, just pay the interest on it". Then he said: "Does that not get to the point where you are using all of your income to pay interest?" I said: "Buddy, you have it. You have exactly the problem that the Minister of Finance had".
I told my constituent there was another approach. He could say to his wife in the morning: "Let us pay off all our bills right now. Do not buy any groceries. Tell the youngsters they will not eat for six months because we are paying off the debt". He said: "Come on, Simmons, what are you giving me?" I said: "Basically the Reform budget". "Do not eat now youngsters, just hold your breath. Do not get too thirsty or hungry for six months because we will be back when all the bills are paid."
We cannot do that. What the Minister of Finance had to do, and what I support him in doing, was to present this necessarily tough budget that goes down the middle. It tries its best to reduce the debt and at the same time tries its best to maintain essential programs.