House of Commons Hansard #175 of the 35th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was workers.

Topics

Maintenance Of Railway Operations Act, 1995Government Orders

Noon

Liberal

Don Boudria Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

I cannot imagine it either, but if they do, they are going to cost the taxpayers of Canada another $100,000. When people are brought in it is for a minimum of four hours. Therefore it will cost another $100,000 to prolong their ego trip for one more day. It is going to cost another $100,000 to the good people of Canada who are paying the salaries of the members across the way along with the rest of us in this House.

Maintenance Of Railway Operations Act, 1995Government Orders

Noon

Bloc

Gaston Leroux Bloc Richmond—Wolfe, QC

Why are you afraid of our amendments?

Maintenance Of Railway Operations Act, 1995Government Orders

Noon

Liberal

Don Boudria Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

I would like to say to the hon. members opposite, who have not stopped making a ruckus, that I understand their agitation at this moment; they may be a little embarrassed. The hon. members opposite are finally beginning to see the light, and that makes them restless. They look like they are on the defensive.

Maintenance Of Railway Operations Act, 1995Government Orders

Noon

An hon. member

What was the number again?

Maintenance Of Railway Operations Act, 1995Government Orders

Noon

Liberal

Don Boudria Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

524-2828. I repeat for the information of hon. members opposite that is the telephone number for the St-Isidore farmers' co-operative. And that is but one of the farmers' co-operatives in my riding. There are others, farmers in my riding which the Bloc purports to defend from time to time, Canadian farmers. I say to them: Wake up. Help the Canadian farming industry. Help Canadian industry in general, from coast to coast. Help everybody who takes commuter trains to get to work, be it in Montreal, Toronto or elsewhere. They too want to have transportation to get home and see their families.

I say to the hon. members opposite and to the leader of the Bloc that hundreds and hundreds, even thousands of people in Toronto and Montreal would like to be like everybody else and go home, but are unable to do so at present. Why? Because of the strike which could have been ended a week ago, had the hon. members opposite given their consent.

Maintenance Of Railway Operations Act, 1995Government Orders

Noon

Some hon. members

Oh, oh.

Maintenance Of Railway Operations Act, 1995Government Orders

Noon

Bloc

Gaston Leroux Bloc Richmond—Wolfe, QC

We could have ended it a week ago.

Maintenance Of Railway Operations Act, 1995Government Orders

Noon

Liberal

Don Boudria Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Why did they not consent?

It is because of the ego trip they are on. That is the only reason. Instead of doing what is right, they did what a handful of people asked them, told them or ordered them to do, instead of doing what their constituents want. That is the sad reality. That is what the Bloc Quebecois has been doing for the last week,

initially supported by the NDP just in case some Canadians had forgotten. But even the NDP came around. That tells us that even the people in the NDP finally got some common sense. Well, I hope the Bloc Quebecois gets some now.

Maintenance Of Railway Operations Act, 1995Government Orders

12:05 p.m.

Lethbridge Alberta

Reform

Ray Speaker ReformLethbridge

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to speak on behalf of the Reform Party with regard to these amendments.

Maintenance Of Railway Operations Act, 1995Government Orders

12:05 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Gauthier Bloc Roberval, QC

Madam Speaker, on a point of order, at the invitation of the hon. member for Glengarry-Prescott-Russell, we checked at the telephone number he gave, and everything is fine.

Maintenance Of Railway Operations Act, 1995Government Orders

12:05 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Maheu)

Does the hon. member for Rosemont have a point of order?

Maintenance Of Railway Operations Act, 1995Government Orders

March 25th, 1995 / 12:05 p.m.

Bloc

Benoît Tremblay Bloc Rosemont, QC

Madam Speaker, could the hon. member be asked to retract what he said, since the facts were wrong?

Maintenance Of Railway Operations Act, 1995Government Orders

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

Don Boudria Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Madam Speaker, I called from the lobby. I was told that soya beans cost 20 per cent more today.

Maintenance Of Railway Operations Act, 1995Government Orders

12:05 p.m.

Bloc

Lucien Bouchard Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

We just called.

Maintenance Of Railway Operations Act, 1995Government Orders

12:05 p.m.

Bloc

Benoît Tremblay Bloc Rosemont, QC

Madam Speaker, the hon. member did not retract what he said, although a mistake was clearly made.

Maintenance Of Railway Operations Act, 1995Government Orders

12:05 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Maheu)

Order.

Maintenance Of Railway Operations Act, 1995Government Orders

12:05 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Bellehumeur Bloc Berthier—Montcalm, QC

I just made the call myself.

Maintenance Of Railway Operations Act, 1995Government Orders

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

Don Boudria Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

They cost 20 per cent more.

Maintenance Of Railway Operations Act, 1995Government Orders

12:05 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Maheu)

Order. Order, please. I would remind all of the members who rose on the point of order that it was a point of debate. I now recognize the hon. member for Lethbridge.

Maintenance Of Railway Operations Act, 1995Government Orders

12:05 p.m.

Lethbridge Alberta

Reform

Ray Speaker ReformLethbridge

Madam Speaker, looking at the situation before us we can say that the delay is unfortunate for all Canadians to a great extent. The responsibility today certainly lies with the Bloc Quebecois as its members come here and go through a lot of political gymnastics in an attempt to prove something to Canada. That is absolutely wrong.

The amendment before us asks for what is called a mediation commission. If there was sincerity behind that amendment I would buy it. However, when I listen to the Bloc present its case to this House, the case is one of political expediency. It is not to change the law of the country nor to bring about a common sense solution to the problem. Therefore I do not buy it, nor do my Reform Party colleagues.

It is unforgiving for a political party to play with our economy. Ministers of this government have outlined situations that are costing Canadians billions of dollars. My colleagues have given examples where industries are hurt, where factories and a variety of businesses which are very dependent upon shipping in this country are hurt to a significant degree. And politics are being played in this House to delay the inevitable, that the workers must go back to work and that we must get the transportation system back on track.

That is where we are today. As a common sense political party, we believe it is time to act. The Minister of Labour has brought legislation before the House. We are prepared to support it and move it as quickly as possible through the final stages.

I know we have been critical of the Minister of Labour. However, we have also generalized it to government saying that the government should have acted sooner and not only brought in back to work legislation but also put in place a long term solution to the problem.

The Minister of Labour, as I listen to her in her new assignment, is committed. We are going to hold her accountable for this on behalf of the Reform Party. We will also hold her accountable as the representative of the Liberal Government of Canada. From what I understand, the commission which is going to be established will bring about a long term solution to the problem. We want that to happen.

I have heard other comments in the House today that would only support that general direction of government, the somewhat commitment of government. I hope it is a real commitment. I hope it is not just political statements for expedient reasons at this point and then six months to a year from now we have no action by government toward a long term solution.

As I listened to the Minister for International Trade today he said: "Rail services should be available so that our goods can reach our ports and move across the U.S.-Canadian border". We agree with that. That is the way it should be. The minister also went on to say that we need a more satisfactory way to resolve disputes in our rail system, which is absolutely true. We support that. That is a statement of commitment by the minister as I read it. I hope that minister will follow through and with the Minister of Labour will bring about a long term solution.

The minister for trade also went on to say in his remarks to this assembly: "Early resolution of the rail strike which is causing such problems to our rail system is certainly necessary". We agree with that as well. That is why we are here today.

That is the position of the Reform Party. We want action. We want action immediately to deal with this matter.

It is my hope that the Bloc Quebecois will reconsider delaying this debate until tomorrow so we can forgo further expense. The government whip has indicated there are enormous costs in continuing the operation of this assembly, not only for Saturday but on Sunday as well. These unnecessary costs are being placed upon Canadians because of one political party that wants to play a political game, which is completely unsatisfactory.

Where are we then as the Reform Party? What is our position? What do we think should be done at this point?

First, we are prepared to support the current legislation, Bill C-77, that will put the workers back to work and our transportation in operation as of this coming Monday.

Second, we are concerned that the government did not put the legislation in place at an earlier date. There were many signals. My colleague, the critic for labour, indicated in his remarks that the signals were there and that the government should have put in place legislation upon which we could have acted more quickly.

Third, we think there is a long term solution to this problem. Bill C-262 was voted on in this House earlier this week. A principle in that bill is supported by a number of groups across Canada. We said clearly in Bill C-262 that there should be binding arbitration in place to bring about a conclusion to a dispute. The two parties in that process would each place their final offer on the table, the arbitrator would choose, and our rail system would continue to work.

Some people say that is the wrong way to handle the problem, that we violate some basic principles of the collective bargaining process. I do not believe that is true. In this circumstance there is a difference.

In collective bargaining circumstances we have management and employees. They bargain back and forth through the process and reach a point where there can either be a lockout or a strike. Under most circumstances that is acceptable.

However, when we are looking at the transportation system of the country there is a third party that loses its rights, that does not have any say in the process but pays the bill. The most obvious example is the agricultural community, the agricultural producer or the processor of agricultural products. We are required as farmers or agricultural producers to ship our goods via the railway. When there are no other options we must place the goods on the railway, get them to port, into the hold of the boat and into the international market.

If we cannot have a reliable transportation system there will be a huge economic impact on the agricultural sectors. We have seen that some 15 times in the last 25 years. Billions of dollars have been lost in that industry. The third party, the producer, was the victim. He had no say but paid the bills. That is unacceptable.

With Bill C-77 we will have binding arbitration in place that will be the solution to the problem. It has been the solution to the problem some 14 or 15 times in the last 25 years. It has been the only way to settle the problem. It has been satisfactory to management and employees. Government has had no other alternative but to knee-jerk and bring in special legislation to put people back to work.

Our recommendation as the Reform Party is that we should have that mechanism in place on a permanent basis so that when the two parties get to a point where they have to settle a dispute arbitration kicks in and the solution is there for the problem.

Maintenance Of Railway Operations Act, 1995Government Orders

12:15 p.m.

St. Boniface Manitoba

Liberal

Ronald J. Duhamel LiberalParliamentary Secretary to President of the Treasury Board

Madam Speaker, I must admit that I am saddened today to see that we are unable to reach an agreement on a serious problem which is hurting the country and its citizens so much. I would have thought that when faced with such a big challenge, we could have given each other a hand and have found a solution that would make everybody happy. Unfortunately, that is not the case.

That is sad, because the strike costs $500 million a day. By the end of the strike, say the workers come back on Monday, we will have lost $5 billion. Just break that figure down into how much each citizen of the country lost. It is a huge sum.

Obviously businesses and stores almost everywhere in Canada are affected. Obviously Canadians are all affected. It is having very, very dire and, in some cases, brutal repercussions for people. We often forget that workers are also affected. Not only those on strike, not only those who are locked out, but also those prevented from working because of what is going on. I find that so sad.

You have all heard that the Bloc is touting itself as the defender of workers' rights. But we have to ask ourselves one basic question. Which workers are they defending?

Is it the workers of the industries listed here: the Himont petrochemical plant in Varennes, where production has dropped by 25 per cent; ICI, a petrochemical plant in Dalhousie, with a 33 per cent drop in production; Donohue, a pulp and paper plant in Saint-Félicien, Quebec, now closed, with 100 people out of a job; Donohue, a pulp and paper plant in Clermont, slated to close down, laying off 75 employees; Franceau, in Chambord, where 190 employees stand to be laid off; Univers, in Val d'Or, which will throw 16 employees out of work; Forpan Inc., in Val d'Or,

where 146 employees could be out of work; Panval Inc., in Soyabec, slated to close down, laying off 238 employees; or PanFiber, in Mont-Laurier, where 101 employees could be laid off? Are those the people the Bloc Quebecois seeks to protect?

You know as well as I do that what they are trying to do, of course, is to disguise their true intentions. Why is it that the Bloc said absolutely nothing when the government forced the longshoremen to resume work in Vancouver? They did not say a word. Why is that? It is obvious. They have a big problem. They went too far. They did not understand. They have not been sensitive enough to the rest of the country. Now, they are looking for a way to put that behind them. They made a bad move; it was poor judgment on their part.

Let us look at the damage done by this strike. I will quote from an article published yesterday, March 24, in The Ottawa Sun . I want to make sure I quote it correctly.

It is the height of irresponsibility for Bouchard to stall back to work legislation.

The strike is costing industry $500 million a day in lost production and sales. By the time the legislation is eventually passed by Parliament on Sunday, the strike will have cost the economy $5 billion.

The dispute has delayed shipments of potash, grain, coal, ore, forestry products, heavy industrial components, processed food, chemicals, manufactured products and other goods.

For Canada's farmers, the strike could not have come at a worst time. It is the busiest time of year, with nearly 25,000 rail cars on sidings waiting to deliver the rest of last summer's harvest.

If we were to ask my colleague from Brandon-Souris how the people in his riding are affected, he would corroborate that it is disastrous for the farmer and certainly the western Canadian farmer.

The articles continues:

Tens of thousands of workers across the country have been laid off because of the disruption, while many more are being forced to work half shifts.

At least 70,000 commuters in Toronto and Montreal face the inconvenience of finding other ways to get to work.

The stalling tactics are certainly linked to supporting the referendum. Referring to the province of Quebec the article states:

The strike has hurt the province's manufacturers, aluminium industry and its pulp and paper companies.

For example, forest giant Repap Enterprises faces imminent shutdowns and layoffs affecting 5,000 workers that could paralyse entire communities.

One of the reasons why Bouchard is being obstructionist is to keep good relations with Quebec's militant unions, which are big boosters of independence.

Clearly, Bouchard feels he can't afford to anger the unions which are one of the few organized groups in Quebec willing to jump over the cliff to reach the separatist dream.

The article is a little harsh and goes on to state:

Bouchard has demonstrated to Quebecers that he's clueless about bread and butter issues. If he doesn't know the impact that the strike is having in Quebec then imagine what would happen if the province ever separated from Canada.

How can Quebecers put trust in his lofty claims that there won't be any economic fallout if Quebec separates?

Obviously they can't if he isn't able to see the consequences of a rail strike which is essential to the entire Canadian economy.

That is what the article states. It is a condemnation of the actions of Bloc Quebecois members. They show quite clearly that what they are trying to do is take advantage of the situation for their own political gain.

There are two basic principles to consider. We all agree that, as far as possible, work agreements should be negotiated, that labour disputes should be settled through negotiation. Ideally, we all wish it could be so. But do you not think there is another principle that is equally important and sometimes more important here, namely the protection of the public, the protection of this country's economy to which we owe the quality of life we enjoy in Canada at this time? That is what we are doing today. It is not that we do not want workers to reach an agreement with their employers. We gave them time and no agreement was reached. Now, in the face of the damage done by this strike, we have to take action. We have no choice.

Many Bloc members mentioned that the bill will be used in other sectors in the future, because of what we are doing today. I agree and I challenge them by asking: Why not begin to co-operate in an attempt to settle this situation? Let us put Canadians back to work and let us co-operate in looking for solutions that will ensure that the situation never occurs again, either in the railway industry or elsewhere. How can we simultaneously protect our workers and our people? That is the challenge.

I conclude my speech by commending the Minister of Labour for her excellent work. Well done, Madam Minister! The job has not been easy. We are not enjoying this. We believe that agreements and labour disputes should be negotiated. But the time has come to give priority to the country and its people.

Maintenance Of Railway Operations Act, 1995Government Orders

12:25 p.m.

Bloc

Paul Mercier Bloc Blainville—Deux-Montagnes, QC

Madam Speaker, we had no choice but to agree immediately to the request courteously expressed a few minutes ago by our colleague from Glengarry-Prescott-Russell, who said that we could verify what he said by calling the co-op he referred to. We hastened to do so and I can now reassure this House, which was needlessly alarmed by my esteemed colleague's remarks. First

of all, this co-op is not out of stock. Second, soy prices did not rise this week but dropped by 10 cents a bushel as of last night.

Maintenance Of Railway Operations Act, 1995Government Orders

12:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh.

Maintenance Of Railway Operations Act, 1995Government Orders

12:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear.

Maintenance Of Railway Operations Act, 1995Government Orders

12:25 p.m.

Bloc

Paul Mercier Bloc Blainville—Deux-Montagnes, QC

There are reassuring news which completely contradict the comments made by the hon. member across the way, which suggest he was badly misinformed, if I may use this euphemism. I have every reason to believe that other alarmist information we have been given on the consequences of the strike is in the same category.