House of Commons Hansard #176 of the 35th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was parties.

Topics

Business Of The HouseGovernment Orders

2:30 p.m.

Saint-Léonard Québec

Liberal

Alfonso Gagliano LiberalSecretary of State (Parliamentary Affairs) and Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

moved:

That, immediately following the adoption of this Order, the sitting shall be suspended and shall be reconvened for the sole purpose of attending a Royal Assent;

Provided that, immediately upon return from the said Royal Assent, the House shall be adjourned to the next sitting day;

Provided that if the House has not been reconvened for the purpose of attending a Royal Assent by 10 a.m. on Monday, March 27, 1995, it shall, at that time, be reconvened for the sole purpose of being adjourned until 11 a.m. March 27, 1995.

The purpose of this motion is to suspend the sitting of the House while the other place passes this bill and ensure that, by tomorrow, railway operations will have resumed in our country, so that, for instance, the people from the suburbs of Montreal who commute by train can do so tomorrow.

The other day, the Leader of the Opposition congratulated the Minister of Labour on having resolved the conflict in the port of Montreal. But now the port of Montreal is cluttered with containers and, if trains could get rolling as soon as possible, they could be shipped out. This way, factories would get the parts they need and workers could keep working.

That is why, for the last time, we ask the opposition to give consent to suspending the sitting of the House to allow this legislation to be enacted today and railway operations to resume tomorrow. I know that my colleague, the House leader of the opposition wishes to speak, but I hope that after he has done so, the sitting of the House can be suspended to ensure that this legislation be given royal assent before the day is over.

Business Of The HouseGovernment Orders

2:30 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Gauthier Bloc Roberval, QC

Members opposite have no need to worry about my wish to speak to this motion, Mr. Speaker. I have no intention of beating, or even getting close to, the recent parliamentary record for the longest speech on a motion, which was set by the current Minister of Fisheries and Oceans in the last Parliament when he spoke for three hours on a fisheries bill. Despite the Deputy Prime Minister's invitation, I have no intention of beating this time record, far from it.

Some matters must be clarified before we agree to adjourn.

Last Monday, when the government and the opposition faced off on the rail transportation problem, we had no idea that we would sit until today, Sunday, before solving this serious problem. We were prepared from the first and sincerely believed that it was possible to settle this matter very quickly with a minimum of co-operation.

This past week was certainly not democracy week in Canada's Parliament. In fact, the government set parliamentary rules aside four times in order to pass this bill. This week, they set aside the rights of CN workers as well as the very rule of free collective bargaining in Canada. This was certainly not the most glorious week for the government and the new Minister of Labour.

Business Of The HouseGovernment Orders

2:35 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear.

Business Of The HouseGovernment Orders

2:35 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Gauthier Bloc Roberval, QC

This was neither democracy week nor a very good week for the Minister of Labour, who will go down in history as the ultimate trigger-happy minister, who rejected all the recommendations in the conciliator's report, who refused to discuss the matter with the opposition, who refused to keep an open mind in this debate, who refused to co-operate with the people on this side in order to settle the labour dispute.

Business Of The HouseGovernment Orders

2:35 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear.

Business Of The HouseGovernment Orders

2:35 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Gauthier Bloc Roberval, QC

During this debate, and particularly at third reading, members opposite referred to previous debates during which the Leader of the Opposition or other members may have held different views. But we are quite comfortable with that. After all, let us not forget that the Prime Minister and leader of this government fought tooth and nail against free trade, leading an extraordinary charge which lasted for months and which was also part of his leadership campaign. Back then, all the members opposite were against free trade, whereas today they extoll the virtues of NAFTA.

If the Liberals want to talk about changing one's views, that is fine with us. Remember when they lambasted the previous Conservative government for making cuts to the UI program. Canadians and Quebecers are not stupid. The Liberals blasted the Conservative government regarding these changes to the UI program. Yet, as soon as they took office, the Liberals set out to do twice as much damage as the previous government had done.

Before adjourning, let us remember how hard these Liberals fought to protect social housing in Canada. Now that they form the government, they cut all the budgets for social housing. These are the people we are dealing with, across the floor.

We, as well as Canadian and Quebec workers, will remember the Minister of Labour and her government, which imposed four special motions to suspend the normal rules of Parliament. The first one, on Wednesday, March 22, 1995, was a time allocation motion limiting to one hour the debate at second reading. For those who are listening to us, the debate at second reading consists in examining the principle underlying the bill.

When we are preparing to change the rules of the labour relations game, following the conciliator's report, it seems rather presumptuous to us, to say the least, not to allow Parliament to speak for at least a few hours on the principle of this bill. Only one hour to discuss the principle of the bill.

Secondly, on March 22 as well, a second motion on the allocation of time, unheard of in Canadian Parliament, limiting the work of the committee to four hours. Why? Why not allow the committee a few hours to discuss the bill as a whole? It had only four hours and was obliged to stop its deliberations at 9 p.m., when it could easily have carried on until 10 p.m. or 11 p.m.

This is the strongest evidence that the government and the Minister of Labour never had the intention of listening to what the opposition had to say.

At 10 a.m., on Thursday March 23, even before the House began its proceedings, with no discussion between the government and the office of the Opposition House Leader and without any prior negotiations, the government decided, by tabling a particular motion here in this House, that we would sit Saturday and Sunday. It was not the opposition that decided this. It was at the government's request, and it is in the Hansard.

A fourth time allocation motion, on Saturday, March 26, again limited the work of the House, this time to three hours. How in all seriousness can they have so little respect for workers' rights? How can they not want to listen for one second to what duly elected members want to say to the government? At no time, it must be said, did the opposition take a stand outside the rules of Parliament. We simply refused to suspend the rules of this House. We wanted the debate to take place in the same way as most, if not all, parliamentary debates, that is, through the normal process of discussion.

At no time did I ever say to the government, to the press or to the electronic media that we wanted to filibuster this bill. On the contrary, I have always reminded the government and citizens that the opposition realizes that we have to resolve the railway dispute quickly yet responsibly and without contravening parliamentary rules, in order to avoid the economic problems associated with a lingering dispute.

Although there was no indication whatsoever that we wanted to delay the work, no indication whatsoever that we wanted to put the bill off until later, the government decided to introduce no less than four special motions, one of which, need I remind the House, was to sit Saturday and Sunday.

I was surprised. I was disappointed yesterday when the hon. government whip said that this was something absolutely unusual and wrong, and that we should not be sitting Saturday and Sunday, because it costs $17,000 an hour to run Parliament, and a little more to do it on Sunday. As if democracy did not warrant Parliament's decision to run as long as it sees fit, as long as it takes to solve problems affecting the citizens of this country.

It is utterly unacceptable that a debate on a point as basic as the right to strike or the right of workers to have their say on the issue comes down to a question of how many thousands of dollars it costs an hour.

As for the Deputy Prime Minister, she called members of the opposition stupid-what gall-because we talked about workers' rights. I have never seen such a thing. In the eight and a half years that I have been a parliamentarian, this is the first time that I have seen a Deputy Prime Minister stoop to so low an insult in describing the attitude of the opposition, which never did any filibustering, but merely wanted to ensure that parliamentary rules, the rules imposed on us by members opposite, were respected.

Business Of The HouseGovernment Orders

2:45 p.m.

Bloc

Yvan Loubier Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC

Insult is the weapon of the people.

Business Of The HouseGovernment Orders

2:45 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Gauthier Bloc Roberval, QC

Before agreeing to let the House adjourn, I just wish to remind you and the population that, during the debate on this matter, the Minister of Labour refused to make the slightest concession allowing the workers not to disrupt rail transportation but to return to work and be heard. As even the conciliator admitted, the workers were not given the opportunity to be heard.

We asked the government to give the workers a chance to be heard by imposing a return to work. We agree that they should go back to work, but they should be given a chance to be heard without the sword of Damocles hanging over their heads. The Minister of Labour rejected this minimum demand by the

opposition, which would have allowed us to settle the whole dispute as early as Monday.

Do not forget that, instead of agreeing to or discussing this demand, the Minister of Labour and the government adopted a hammer-like approach in conducting parliamentary proceedings this week. This is not democracy week; it is a record for a new minister recently elected to this Parliament to flout parliamentary rules four times in order to speed up debate and settle this matter as quickly as possible without any respect whatsoever for those involved.

Furthermore, I would remind you that the Minister of Labour made a statement in this House which was quite surprising, coming as it did from a new member of Parliament who, we personally believed, wanted to advance labour relations. On March 22, the Minister of Labour said this:

Let us be realistic: Kruger is closed, while Bécancour, Alcan and Petromont are in the process of shutting down. Let us do something, Mr. Speaker.

That is what the Minister of Labour said. Are those the words of a serious-minded person? Who would make such alarmist remarks, when Alcan never ceased operating, Bécancour never shut down, Kruger was closed for no more than 24 hours and Petromont remained open? Is it the responsible thing to do for a government minister to use scare tactics to settle a dispute?

Business Of The HouseGovernment Orders

2:45 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear.

Business Of The HouseGovernment Orders

2:45 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Gauthier Bloc Roberval, QC

Not only is this minister the bludgeon minister, but she is the minister of economic terrorism. This gives a good idea of what to expect in the Quebec referendum debate.

Business Of The HouseGovernment Orders

2:45 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear.

Business Of The HouseGovernment Orders

2:45 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Gauthier Bloc Roberval, QC

Imagine the Quebec referendum debate, in which she is supposed to represent this government. She was called in because the government wanted to have a credible spokesperson in Quebec. No sooner is she in that her first move as Minister of Labour is to violate the rights of the workers. How so? Through economic terrorism.

Business Of The HouseGovernment Orders

2:45 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear.

Business Of The HouseGovernment Orders

2:45 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Gauthier Bloc Roberval, QC

Mr. Speaker, we cannot suspend the sitting of this House without first giving the people of Quebec this piece of advice: remember what the Minister of Labour did. Workers, whether unionized or not, do not forget how she handled her first labour relations assignment. Remember how she tried to scare people. Remember her arguments, arguments that turned out to be untrue. Remember that the Minister of Labour is to blame for the worst week we have gone though since we were elected to this Parliament.

Business Of The HouseGovernment Orders

2:45 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear.

Business Of The HouseGovernment Orders

2:50 p.m.

Lethbridge Alberta

Reform

Ray Speaker ReformLethbridge

Mr. Speaker, the Reform Party and my colleagues here today support the motion before us because we want to get on with the job. We want this to move to the Senate and we want to have royal assent today. That is the responsible thing to do at this time.

I also want to talk about democracy. The House leader for the Bloc Quebecois tries to epitomize democracy in the House. If members listen very carefully they will see his definition of democracy. One moment he talks about being for the worker. The next moment he talks about fighting for the economy of Canada. The next moment he is saying something about management. Very soon he is talking about the responsibilities of the Minister of Labour and how she should be involved.

He is all over the place. I cannot understand any kind of definition of democracy in these guttural utterances. It is a delaying tactic in dealing with some very important legislation before us that must move to the other place.

I would like to say to the Bloc Quebecois that democracy is representing those who need representation in an emergency situation. This is demonstrated by the legislation before us.

We have had a group of people who needed immediate representation. There are the shippers, the exporters, the farmers and a number of other people who are innocent third parties who cannot be involved in the collective bargaining process. They are in need of representation in a democracy so that they have equal opportunity. What we have done in moving third reading is say those people are going to be represented in our system and are not going to be injured in any way. It is time to recognize that is an important aspect in this democratic process.

On that basis we urge the support for the motion before us, that the House rises until the call of the Chair, that we resume and give royal assent so that tomorrow the transportation system is operating and taking its rightful responsibility.

Business Of The HouseGovernment Orders

2:50 p.m.

The Speaker

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Business Of The HouseGovernment Orders

2:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Business Of The HouseGovernment Orders

2:50 p.m.

An hon. member

On division.

(Motion agreed to.)

Business Of The HouseGovernment Orders

2:50 p.m.

The Speaker

Is it the wish of the House to suspend the sitting to the call of the Chair?

Business Of The HouseGovernment Orders

2:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

(The sitting of the House was suspended at 2.55 p.m.)

The House resumed at 5.15 p.m.

Message From The SenateGovernment Orders

2:50 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

I have the honour to inform the House that a message has been received from the Senate informing the House that the Senate has passed certain bills, to which the concurrence of this House is desired.

The Deputy Speaker: Order. I have the honour to inform the House that a communication has been received as follows:

Rideau Hall

March 26, 1995

Mr. Speaker,

I have the honour to inform you that the Honourable Antonio Lamer, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Canada, in his capacity as Deputy Attorney General, will proceed to the Senate chamber today, the 26th day of March, 1995, at 5.15 p.m., for the purpose of giving Royal Assent to several bills.

Yours sincerely,

Anthony P. Smyth, Deputy Secretary, Policy, Program and Protocol

A message was delivered by the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod as follows:

Mr. Speaker, the Honourable Deputy to the Governor General desires the immediate attendance of this honourable House in the chamber of the honourable the Senate.

Accordingly, the Speaker with the House went up to the Senate chamber.

And being returned:

Message From The SenateThe Royal Assent

2:50 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

I have the honour to inform the House that when the House went up to the Senate Chamber the Deputy Governor General was pleased to give, in Her Majesty's name, the Royal Assent to the following bills:

Bill C-59, An Act to amend the Income Tax Act and the Income Tax Application Rules-Chapter 3.

Bill C-60, An Act respecting an agreement between Her Majesty in right of Canada and the Pictou Landing Indian Band-Chapter 4.

Bill C-47, An Act to amend the Department of External Affairs Act and to make related amendments to other Acts-Chapter 5.

Bill C-77, An Act to provide for the maintenance of railway operations and subsidiary services-Chapter 6.

Bill C-216, An Act to amend the Unemployment Insurance Act-Chapter 7.

It being 5.32 p.m. the House stands adjourned until 11 a.m. tomorrow.

(The House adjourned at 5.32 p.m.)