Mr. Speaker, it seems they are starting to feel a little heat on the other side from some of their constituents.
I would like to add my voice to the chorus we are hearing from this side of the House. The Reform Party is opposed to Bill C-68 because it makes criminals out of ordinary citizens who are responsible gun owners. We would like to separate the criminal use of firearms from the ownership, transportation and storage of firearms in the bill.
We heard the chief government whip give us all of the legal procedural reasons why this cannot be done. People in Canada are sick and tired of the Toronto big city lawyers trying to define what can be done. The minister knows we can separate the bill if he has the will to do it. He is not willing to do it. He is trying to give us an omnibus bill incorporating two things, the protection of Canadian citizens and registration. They are not linked.
We say strengthen and enforce the law dealing with criminals who use guns to commit crimes. That is a reasonable alternative, but leave responsible gun owners alone.
This bill will place unnecessary restrictions on us. It will limit our freedom. It will waste our time and it will put a dent in our pocket books. I do not care what the minister says. It will be significantly higher than what he estimates.
In my riding of Peace River the lawyers who write the laws concerning firearms are known as those out of touch eggheads from Toronto. I live in a northern riding. These are fancy lawmakers who have no idea what it is like to live and work in the north. These are lawyers who have never had to worry about bears or wolves killing their livestock. Come up north with me
and maybe I can paint a picture of what it is like. I encourage the minister to do that.
Several years ago a rancher in my riding saw a black bear approaching his young child playing outside. Being a crack shot, he grabbed his rifle and pumped two shells into the animal. He assumed the bear was not coming over to make a polite introduction. Had this incident occurred today the child probably would be dead.
Talk about saving one life, is it worth it?
With the law as written today the rancher first would have to go from one room to get the gun and into another room to get the ammunition. He would not have had time to get that bear before it got his child.
Many people in my riding voted against the Conservatives because they hated Kim Campbell's Bill C-17. Now they are finding out this government is even worse. Maybe there is a lesson there to be learned.
How will one store ammunition in another room if one lives in a one room cabin? Who lives in a one room cabin? Trappers and outfitters do. They have lots of them on their trap lines. That is what Kim Campbell's law demanded. Hunters and trapping guides who depend on their guns for a living do not have fancy multiroom houses. They have one room cabins. They would have to store their ammunition in one room and their guns in a separate one. They would have to build a separate cabin to store their ammunition. How ludicrous this gets.
If a person is moving around their property to fix fences, as ranchers do in some parts of northern and western Canada, does it make any sense to unload the firearm, put the ammunition under the seat and get back into the truck? It does not. Bear stories are not as frequent as they used to be but there are still parts of the country where bears are a menace to livestock. We still have the occasional tragic incident. I encourage the minister to listen.
Six years ago two tree planters were replanting some cut blocks in a reforestation project in my riding. They were unarmed and they were charged by a large black bear. One managed to climb a tree high enough to get out of trouble. The other tree planter was not as lucky. He was killed. Five years ago an unarmed timber cruiser had the misfortune of running into a grizzly. He did not live to tell his story. If we talk about one life being saved, those are a couple of examples.
Let us talk about a different kind of hardship, money. In most rural areas people cannot afford to register their firearms even if it did make any sense. When we start telling a young couple with little children struggling to make ends meet who have already lost a cow to a wolf or a bear and some calves to other misfortunes that they must shell out $300 to $400 to register their firearms, we have to wonder from where that money is going to come. It will come straight from the mouths of their children.
Please do not tell me that it is only going to cost $10 or so to register a firearm. To properly register anything we need an inspection. I believe the minister knows this. When we are talking about inspecting distinguishing features such as serial numbers and calibre we are going to run into costs.
The minister knows that up to 20 per cent of long guns do not have proper identification at the moment. Is the government planning to run a deficit in this area as well? The cost of registering handguns is approximately $75. It is difficult to understand how the registration of rifles and shotguns is going to be any cheaper. The government estimates the total cost of registration at around $85 million. It will probably be a lot closer to $500 million, almost six times as much; seven million long guns multiplied by $75. Members can work out the math.
We have had a handgun registry for some 60 years. Has it reduced the incidence of store robbery or domestic violence? No, it has not. It has probably increased. How will long gun registration improve that balance? If there were any solid proof that domestic violence would be reduced as a result of more gun control, in rural areas this law would be easier to swallow. There is no such proof.
The real red herring here, the one I resent the most, is when the minister talks about how it will reduce suicides. This is the worst case scenario I have ever heard of. My nephew committed suicide. It was the most tragic thing that ever happened in our family. Did he use a gun to do it? No, he did not. When people are in that state of mind they will use whatever they find necessary to get the job done. Whether a gun was there, whatever was there to get the job done, that is what he used. That is the worst possible case the minister put forward.
In situations of domestic violence it is much the same. A distressed person will use whatever is handy. They will use their fists, they will use knives, they will use egg beaters or any item they happen to find. Suggesting these items should be registered is as ludicrous as registering rifles and shotguns.
If there were any solid proof that murders would be reduced by requiring registration, tougher gun laws would be more palatable. Again, there is no such proof. A retired RCMP sergeant wrote recently that in his 27 years with the RCMP he was directly involved in investigating 14 murders and attempted murders. In only three of those were firearms used. The murders involved fire, axes, fists, two-by-fours, strangulation and kitchen knives. Registering the few firearms used would not have prevented most of those crimes from occurring.
Our fancy lawmakers say that cars are registered, so why not rifles and shotguns. Has car registration reduced the carnage on
our highways, prevented cars from being stolen or used in the commission of crimes? Obviously not.
Most of the people in my riding use their guns only occasionally. This is very important. These guns have been handed down from grandfather to father to son. Most people, including myself, use their guns very infrequently. It really bothers people that they will have to go through this whole process when it is not going to be effective.
Mark my words, it is not going to be effective in reducing crime. There will be a big cost involved and it will be a big inconvenience. These are peaceful, law-abiding citizens who do not like to have their freedom limited without a good reason. If it could be demonstrated that there is going to be a reduction in the criminal use of firearms, that would be a different matter.
Many have guns which are heirlooms having been passed from father to son and so on. Putting all the rules and regulations in place to limit the use of these through registration does not make any sense. The government will be forcing people to break the law in many cases. Many people in my riding have said they are not going to register their guns.
I urge the government to reconsider this ill-conceived bill. Punish the criminal use of guns and do not make criminals out of peaceful, law-abiding citizens.