Mr. Speaker, it is an honour for me to speak again at the third reading stage of this bill on behalf of the official opposition, the Bloc Quebecois, the sovereignist party in Ottawa, on an issue as important as the act to provide for the establishment of electoral boundaries commissions and the readjustment of electoral boundaries.
I would like to explain in very simple terms to the people listening to us that this bill establishes regulations for future federal elections.
At first sight, this bill might seem of little interest to Bloc members. English Canada provinces could settle the matter among themselves since, when the next federal election is held, Quebec will probably be a sovereign country.
However, in October 1993, I was elected-I reiterate this fact because I know that my colleagues across the way like to hear it-first, to look after Quebecers' interests and, second, to promote sovereignty in Ottawa, as I often do.
However, in fulfilling the mandate of looking after Quebecers' interests, Bloc members must be vigilant. It is because of this vigilance that we are denouncing this bill, which goes against Quebecers' interests.
The process that led to the drafting of Bill C-69 went through Bill C-18, which was tabled in this House over a year ago. Bill C-18 suspended the electoral boundaries readjustment process then in progress for 24 months before a new debate on redistribution could start.
Unfortunately, the Reform Party objected to that bill and its proposed 24-month suspension. Nevertheless, the House, as we know, passed Bill C-18.
However, when the bill went to the other House, the hon. senators did the job that Reformers had initiated in this place. The other House included in Bill C-18 an amendment providing that a new bill must be tabled by June 1995 at the latest, or else the old legislation and the commissions suspended by Bill C-18 would be reinstated.
The bill before us has two objectives, the official objective and the unofficial one, which is just as important if not more so: to reduce as much as possible Quebec's political weight in this House.
Of course the strategy has changed. Since Lord Durham tabled his report, English Canada, the federalists have taken a different approach. The approach may be a more subtle one, but the ultimate goal has remained unchanged: the assimilation of Quebecers.
How can this be achieved? By failing to recognize Quebec, the people of Quebec, as a founding nation, by not recognizing its distinctiveness, by quashing their every demand and legislating to reduce the political weight of Quebecers in Ottawa by increasing the number of members from outside Quebec, members who will vote against Quebec and put Quebec in its place at the first opportunity.
But history has taught us that one does not have to come from outside Quebec to vote with the English Canada majority and against Quebec in particular. We need not think back very far indeed to realize that. I can see it happen regularly since coming to this place. I saw it again with my own two eyes during the vote at report stage, when Liberal members from Quebec ignored Quebecers' wishes and defeated a motion presented by the Bloc Quebecois to ensure that a minimum of 25 per cent of seats in the House of Commons go to Quebec.
Yet, this was a very simple motion and it read as follows: "Notwithstanding the foregoing, when by application of this subsection the number of members to be assigned to the Province of Quebec is less than 25 per cent of the total number of members in the House of Commons, the Chief Electoral Officer shall assign at least 25 per cent of the total number to the Province of Quebec".
Quebec's influence on decisions made in this House will not start to decline in 100 years, but immediately. In the next federal election, Quebec will no longer have the same decision-making influence, it will be smaller. The figures speak for themselves. Our numbers will be reduced, falling below the 25 per cent level of representation we have always had in this House. Never in the history of Quebec have members from Quebec opposed a motion to protect Quebec's legitimate rights, to protect its political weight within the Canadian federation.
What are we, members from Quebec, here for? What have we been elected to do? Every member from Quebec in this House, regardless of political affiliation-whether red, blue, yellow, whatever-was elected by Quebecers to look after Quebec's interests. This motion to ensure a 25 per cent minimum was designed to protect Quebec's interests and that is why we presented it.
We and all these other members have the duty to protect among other things Quebec's political and decision-making influence. The federal government ignored Quebec in this bill. The same way, Quebec will ignore Canada before long. When I see the government and the third party, the Reform Party, hand in hand, joining forces against Quebec, I know it is high time that we pack up and leave.
The Bloc motion would have guaranteed one quarter of the seats to one of the two founding nations of Canada, while also complying with the traditional and legitimate requests of Quebecers to preserve minimum political leverage within the Canadian federation. The attitude of the Liberal members is hypocritical. Barely three years ago, these same Liberals defended Quebec's right to 25 per cent of the seats in the House of Commons. Back then, they formed the opposition. It is strange how time changes things sometimes.
Given that attitude, many of the positive aspects of this legislation are eliminated. Members worked hard to come up with a bill designed to improve the whole redistribution process. However, their efforts were vain, since the government ignored some very important recommendations.
Had some specific provisions been included in it, this legislation could have sent an ultimate message to Quebecers. Instead, the government preferred to team up with the Reform Party to once again put Quebec in a vulnerable position. Nevertheless, as I said earlier, there are some positive aspects to this legislation and I will list a few.
For example, after a decennial census, the changes to the electoral map will be followed by a readjustment five years later, so as to avoid drastic changes in the electoral districts. This is a good change which fulfils a need.
The population of each electoral district will be allowed to vary by more or less 25 per cent from the electoral quota for the province. This is a minimum which, I think, had to be included in the bill.
Provincial commissions will have to hold public hearings before starting their work. Again, this is in response to a legitimate request made by constituents from every riding.
In determining electoral district boundaries, the provincial commissions will have to consider the community of interest, the size of each district, as well as foreseeable geographic changes. In a riding such as Berthier-Montcalm, which I have the honour to represent, the need for such criteria is obvious. Otherwise, we end up with ridings of 50, 52 or 60 municipalities. There has to be at least a certain sense of belonging and the bill ensures that this is the case.
Provincial commissions will have to submit three draft maps and hold new hearings if necessary. Again, this is very good.
As the hon. member for Kamouraska-Rivière-du-Loup mentioned, something had to be done. I am referring to the member's comments because he put the finger on an extremely important aspect of the issue. He said the following: "It seems to me that it is not simply a question of ensuring adequate mathematical representation but of ensuring adequate representation". These are two very different matters. Equity cannot be measured mathematically. If it could, we would fix the problem
on our calculators and save a lot of money. But when a riding is as small as six blocks of Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver versus 55 or 60 municipalities, like my riding, Berthier-Montcalm, should other criteria not be taken into consideration to ensure that the citizens of these ridings are as well represented in Parliament as those of urban downtown ridings in big cities?
The suggested changes addressed this issue, but, as I said earlier, the snub on Quebec that this bill contains is totally unacceptable. In fact, and I will close on this note, Bill C-69 gives no mandate in this area and it could easily have given one to some parliamentary committee. I think that it is not the means to resolve the problem of Quebec's dwindling representation in the House of Commons that is lacking.
Worse yet, Bill C-69 gives no guarantee that the continual reduction in the number of members in this House from Quebec will be halted. On the contrary, the bill maintains the formula set out in section 51 of the British North America Act, which results in a weakening of Quebec's influence within federal institutions.
You will understand that, as long as the people of Quebec have not made a decision on their future, which will certainly be in favour of sovereignty, it is very important that Quebec maintains adequate representation within federal institutions.
I disagree with some of the comments which the Reform member made and I think that, given that we are here to defend the interests of Quebec, we are here to play to win from within the system and we will do everything possible to guarantee Quebec minimum representation, and demanding 25 per cent is a way of guaranteeing Quebec a minimum impact on decisions made in this House.
We are not demanding this because they say we are going to lose the referendum, on the contrary, we are going to win it. However, I think that, at the very least, a member who represents the interests of Quebec had an obligation to present this motion, to guarantee Quebecers the 25 per cent we have always had since Confederation and which we will lose in the next election because of a Liberal government that failed to make any provisions for this in the bill.
All Quebecers, whether or not they agree on sovereignty, agree that Quebec should at least keep 25 per cent. And since everyone likes Quebecers or at least that is what they say, we should be able to get unanimous consent in this House.
I want to ask the Liberal members from Quebec and the government to rescind the previous vote so that we can have a bill that reflects the unanimous demands of Quebecers, including Quebec federalists with their stuffed beaver policy, as some radio commentators refer to Daniel Johnson's policy.
Even Liberal members from Quebec-and I see some members across the way who were in the National Assembly before and are very much aware of Daniel Johnson's political allegiance-even Mr. Johnson said yes, Quebec should have at least 25 per cent. I think Quebecers are unanimous on this.
I am sure there is some formula we could use in this House to rescind the vote at the report stage and include the motion presented by the Bloc Quebecois. I think that, all things considered, after everything we read in the papers and all the pressure on the Liberals across the way in connection with the Bloc's motion, which was entirely legitimate, I am sure there is some way to rescind this vote and guarantee 25 per cent of the seats for Quebecers.