Mr. Speaker, faced with a block of 22 motions like the one before the House today, I find it rather difficult to comment on every single one. What we have is two or three substantial motions, around which other motions have been grouped to provide more transparency, plus additional elements to achieve what Parliament has set out to do with Bill C-43.
To appreciate these amendments, including Motion No. 2, I think some background information might be useful to see what led Parliament to make this statement on influence peddling and lobbying. The Parliament of Canada has examined this question twice before. We had the Cooper committee's report in 1986 and recently, in 1993, we had the report from the Holtmann committee.
These committees looked into exactly the same aspects of lobbying as the present committee did today, in 1995. It is interesting to note that the Holtmann report published a series of recommendations, the first few being the most significant. These recommendations said, more or less, that for legislation like the bill before the House today to be truly effective, it would be necessary to remove all distinctions between lobbyists.
As you know, in the existing legislation, there are three types of lobbyists: the so-called Tier I and Tier II and a third group. There are in-house lobbyists, professional lobbyists and the others, organizations that lobby the government. The Holtmann committee concluded that lobbying was lobbying.
Whether people want to influence the government to obtain a contract, lower the rates in certain regulations, get a permit or obtain government assistance for their organization, this is all lobbying. People try to influence the government for their own purposes, for the benefit of the company for which they work or for the benefit of an association or whatever. In its first three or four recommendations, the Holtmann report said that distinctions between lobbyists should be eliminated.
I am sure you will remember this, Mr. Speaker. If I am not mistaken, the Liberals were to implement the Holtmann report from A to Z-this was a campaign promise made by the Liberals, by people acting in good faith, people who knew what they were doing in the enthusiasm of the moment-which means
that indirectly, and without exactly saying so, they made a commitment to eliminate all distinctions between lobbyists.
In committee, however, when I started to realize that Canadians had been fooled once again, I was very disappointed. I heard members who had been part of the committee that produced the Holtmann report say the exact opposite of what they signed when they tabled the report, with respect to these distinctions, for instance. There are a lot of other examples, particularly with regard to categories, which was the important element of the Holtmann report. It was not just anyone who was opposed. It was the people, who, today, hold fairly important positions in the government and who could influence it and talk it into meeting its campaign commitments.
But no. Throughout the whole time we heard witnesses in committee, some witnesses were in favour of eliminating categories, others were less so. The closer we got to the category of lobbyists capable of influencing government, in the back rooms of power, the greater the likelihood of their not really favouring the elimination of categories.
On the whole, however, the witnesses were in favour of greater transparency. We were sort of the guinea pigs in a new approach to examining bills and we were given a little more freedom. We were part of a pilot project, in a way, considering this bill under a new set of rules. We therefore did not adopt the principle of the bill at second reading, and, accordingly, we were able to broaden Bill C-43 from what the witnesses said and from the input of each of the parties. Members' work had to be given greater consideration, etc. It was all very fine.
Therefore, through a procedural swap and an exchange between members of the opposition and members of the government, we negotiated and we discussed, and I was ready to make a concession on the categories, so there would be only two instead of three. My first thought was to have a single category. However, it is better to bend a bit to achieve part of the desired objective than to risk missing it completely. So, I was ready to bend and to recommend to the members of the Bloc Quebecois that they support an amendment that would reduce the three categories to two. There would then be the category of in-house lobbyists (corporate) and professionals and the category of in-house lobbyists (organizations). All lobbyists would then be in two categories.
Before Christmas, this was accepted by just about everyone around the table. After Christmas, well, I do not know who had been making telephone calls, or what lobby had exerted influence or what, but everything was off. The amendments proposed to the committee were rejected by the government. Today, with Motion No. 2, the government could rectify the situation. Motion No. 2 now before us this morning is a carbon copy, or just about, of what I presented in committee in order to eliminate categories of lobbyists and have only one.
I do not imagine that anyone here has anything against lobbying per se. It does not matter whether organizations are non-profit or profit making, if they lobby in an attempt to influence the government, they have to abide by the rules.
To get approval for a single tier of lobbyists for all organizations, including community agencies, that is the purpose of clause 4(2) of Bill C-43, which I discussed earlier with respect to government initiative, which would eliminate people who might not agree to being recognized as lobbyists on the same terms as professional lobbyists. However, the government accepted the first amendment but did not accept what would have been consequential on the amendment, which was to have a single tier of lobbyists.
I have a few examples that will show why it is important-and when I say lobby, I mean lobby-to make C-43 a bill that has clout, that has teeth, as they say. There were organizations like MATRAC, for instance. I do not know if you remember this, Mr. Speaker, but when cigarette smuggling was going on in January and February 1994, there was an organization called MATRAC, a non-profit organization that sought to have taxes lowered. I have no objection to that. We in the official opposition were in favour of reducing these taxes. However, MATRAC initially gave the impression of being a non-profit organization. In other words, it worked for the benefit of its members and did not enjoy any immediate benefit.
It could be called a non-profit organization, which would come under the third heading in the bill before the House today. However, if we look a little closer at MATRAC, we realize that it was 100 per cent financed by the cigarette manufacturers in order to get taxes down. This is a clear instance of trying to influence the government on an important matter, tax revenues. Why have a separate tier for such a group? I am of the opinion that the act should deal with that by allowing a single tier of lobbyists. But no. I believe we must conclude that lobbyists on Parliament Hill have manged to influence the government with respect to a bill that was supposed to limit their influence. That is the obvious conclusion.
They made certain commitments with respect to the tier system before the election. Now they are in government, they can implement what they promised to do, but they are not doing it. In addition, that would explain why we could create just one category to make the process more transparent and to give everybody in this country the impression that they are all being treated equally. But no, the government did not do this. The lobbyists got involved, phone calls were made, and the Liberals buckled. They buckled like the Conservatives did and like others before them have done since Confederation. And they will keep on buckling until they are doubled over. I cannot wait to see the day that happens in the House. I mean I will no longer be in the House when that day comes, but will watch the spectacle from the outside.
One motion in this set of motions is extremely important, and that is Motion No. 7 regarding political affiliation. This is another amendment I proposed to the committee, and it would make it easier for taxpayers to identify which lobbyists are politically affiliated with the government or with any other party. For example, I helped organize party X's election victory. I would have to mention in my return that I contributed to the election campaign and that I was the political organizer of Mr. X or Ms. Y. I think that is what transparency is all about. What does the government have against making the process more transparent? I do not know. But if they were not against the idea, they would have included it in Bill C-43 and they did not.
I will conclude my remarks, for I see that my time is up. This is yet another good example of this government's double talk: one tune before the election, another after. Once again, taxpayers will have to foot the bill for this, and they still will not know why Bill C-43 was introduced, which was to make the process more transparent in order to obtain answers to our questions.
This has some implications for the Pearson issue. With Bill C-43, we will still be in the dark and will not know any more than what the newspapers have already disclosed regarding the matter. And that is deplorable.