Mr. Speaker, I want to make one more point. When we privatize the system there is no trouble in taking costs off the public books. We could transfer $1 billion or $2 billion, perhaps even more from the public books, that is medicare, over to the private sector. When those costs show up in the private sector, because of wasteful competition the cost will not then be $1 billion or $2 billion, it will be $3 billion or $4 billion.
The hon. member is dealing in illusion, is that not true? That is my question.