Mr. Speaker, it is indeed an honour to be able to rise in this esteemed House, the one to which all of us were elected to represent the people of Canada, to address the question of lobbyists.
I will begin by commending my colleague from the Bloc who just spoke. He presented a very good case and I very much appreciate the points which he raised.
I would also like to comment briefly on the process we went through. As most members know, this was the first bill that went through the new process of going to committee after first reading. As I have said previously in this House, I found that experience both frustrating and rewarding.
It was rewarding in the sense that we had a very amiable chairman. I have said that before and he usually grins when I say that, and I give him that compliment again. I also got to know and to like all of the members on the committee. It was a very good, free and easy exchange.
We were assured during that process that we could think out loud. We could bring out ideas which perhaps we did not really espouse but we wanted to raise as questions. What would happen if we did this or what would happen if we did that? Being a neophyte, I thought that was a wonderful way of discussing and debating. I thought that we were going to get a really good bill out of this process and I was very enthused for most of it.
We had excellent witnesses. Again, I would like to go on record as commending them. They did a good job in presenting their cases.
Underlying all if it, I always wondered whether we really needed the lobbyists. As a matter of fact, if I can express my naivety, I came to Ottawa as a new MP in the fall of 1993 thinking that strictly speaking lobbyists are redundant and they should not be here. To a large degree I still think that way.
That reminds me of a story my assistant shared with me about a problem with some ravens that apparently had pretty well taken over the city of Ottawa. The ravens were becoming a real nuisance. They not only messed up cars, they occasionally attacked children and on occasion even, shall we say, bombed some public officials. That is when action had to be taken.
The mayor of this esteemed city put out a call saying that there would be a $5,000 reward for anyone who could get rid of all of the ravens. Lo and behold someone from the country said to the mayor: "I will solve your problem but it will cost you $5,000". The mayor said that very well, it was worth it because when that last official got bombed by one of the ravens that was the end of it.
The young man had a cage which contained a blue raven. He went to where all of the other ravens were, opened the door and let the blue raven out. That blue raven somehow attracted all of the other ravens and they flew together out of town and were never seen again.
The mayor said to the person: "Here is your $5,000, but I have a question for you: Do you have any blue lobbyists?"
That is a question. Should we get rid of all of the lobbyists? Should we get one of them to take the rest of them out of town?
I will admit that I underwent a minor change in my thinking during the work on this committee. I met different people and different groups and particularly, certain professional associations, business and industry associations which came to make presentations before us. In fact, they were quite successful in convincing us of their importance. I will not mention any of them specifically by name.
Certainly, just as what happens in this place deeply affects citizens, it also affects groups of citizens, businesses and different professions. Therefore, for the government to have some kind of an interface with an association of all of the dentists in the country instead of having to deal with each one individually probably has some merit.
Another one that comes to mind is a presentation that we had from an association of the forestry industry. In this particular instance public policy measures of taxation, environment protection and so on impact greatly not only on the industry's ability to do business in this country but also on its ability to compete worldwide, a factor which is ever more present with us.
Consequently, I came to the conclusion after thinking about this that there probably was some justification for these people to be represented by a smaller association which would specialize in making their views known to the government.
I still think though that for the bulk of public policy issues, lobbyists should be unnecessary. As a matter of fact, as a member of Parliament I am frequently asked whether I will meet with this or that group. I have several rules. One rule is that I usually respond by saying that I do not meet with lobbyists. My constituents, the people who elected me, are my lobbyists. They are the ones I am here to represent.
I have a few little subrules as well. If a lobbyist group comes to see me and one of the delegation members comes from my constituency, I do not care what their issue or cause is, they automatically have an in. I will never refuse to talk to any member of the Elk Island constituency for any reason.
I also have a couple of other little subrules. Occasionally there are groups that have done a lot of research and are specialists in their field. If they can increase my understanding from a technical point of view or from the government impact point of view on the wider population not just in my constituency but throughout the whole country and I have an opportunity to learn something, I will not deny that opportunity.
Therefore, I have had the opportunity to deal with a number of lobbyists directly. In most instances I have appreciated this.
We need to talk about this bill because it seems to be a foregone conclusion that the work of the MP is not effective. I hate to stand up and say this. I know that in a way I am impugning all of my colleagues, myself included, and certainly all of the backbenchers on the government side. It is true that our access to the decision making loop really is limited.
I was interested and paid close attention to the minister's speech this morning. I am going to respond to a few things he said. Among other things, he indicated that it was the government's goal to give MPs a greater role. I wrote that down. I remember reading that in the red book during the election campaign. I must confess that I never did read the whole book.