Mr. Speaker, when the government announced its intention to amend the Lobbyists Registration Act, we thought that it was sincere. We thought that those who, for almost ten years, took the Conservatives to task about their integrity, their way of doing things and their decision-making processes, would table a bill that would shed some light on what goes on behind the scene in this Parliament.
Yet, on June 16, 1994, when Bill C-43, an Act to amend the Lobbyists Registration Act and to make related amendments to other Acts, was tabled, we were forced to change our thinking. The Liberal government, that is those same Liberal members who, in opposition, denounced the cosy deals being hatched in the inner circles of the Conservative regime, now seemed prepared to condone such practices by tabling legislation which contains nothing but good intentions.
We figure that, once the Liberals gained access to the pork barrel, they forgot what they were saying during their days in opposition. This bill has neither teeth nor substance; it is exactly the opposite of what we expected. The credibility of our democratic institutions is currently being questioned by the public. Never, in the short history of our democracy, have public officials been looked upon with such cynicism by voters. Everyone agrees that a climate of confidence must be restored between the governments and the public.
During the last federal election campaign, the Liberal Party of Canada pledged to reform our institutions and make their operations more transparent. In fact, the Liberals' red book, which we hear so much about, contains the following on page 94: "The integrity of government is put into question when there is a perception that the public agenda is set by lobbyists exercising undue influence away from public view".
Unfortunately, once it took office, the Liberal Party considerably watered down its commitments. Such an about face makes the population wonder, and rightly so, how committed the Liberal government really is to bringing in legislation to control influence peddling. When we compare the campaign promises and how they translate into legislation, we can only conclude that the lobbyists undoubtedly determined the final version of Bill C-43 and the resulting reversal of the Liberals' position.
I believe that the first thing a government has to do to restore the integrity of our democratic institutions is to stop buying votes with empty promises. It must also make the administration of the state's affairs more transparent, above all so that we can clear up all grey areas and reassure the population that public policy decisions are made in the public interest and not in the interest of powerful lobbies.
Everybody recognizes the need to restore the public's confidence in our institutions. Unfortunately, after only 18 months in power, the Chrétien government's track record on transparency is dismal. For example, on September 26, 1994, the Canadian press reported that documents obtained under the Access to Information Act showed that, in the months preceding the introduction of Bill C-43, there was a marked increase in the number of meetings with lobbyists and that some of them had threatened to take the government to court if the new legislation forced them to disclose their political ties.
As has often been the case, the lack of transparency in the process kept the public in the dark regarding the scope and the nature of the lobbyists' workings on Bill C-43 until the news hit the press. The daily newspaper La Presse eloquently summed up the situation in its headline on the issue: ``Ottawa's plans to shackle lobbies foiled''. Bizarre situation-lobbyists influencing the very legislation that was supposed to reduce their influence. Given this situation, the need for transparency has never been greater.
One cannot treat the public like a doormat, Mr. Speaker. The public remembers quite clearly the promises made by the Liberals in the red book and elsewhere. Duff Conacher, co-ordinator of the organization Démocratie en surveillance, appeared before the committee to refresh the Liberals' memory regarding their statements on this issue. I know that the members opposite do not like being reminded of some of the things they have said, especially when they are being hypocritical on such an important issue, but I will nevertheless subject them to a quote from this person, who has studied the issue in depth and monitored the government. Mr. Conacher said: "We would like to remind you of those promises and the requirement. We hope you will not
only take the opportunity but also keep those promises and fulfil that requirement in your deliberations on Bill C-43."
There is also a legislative history to be acknowledged. The Cooper committee and the Holtmann committee have preceded you. Both proposed measures that go beyond the provisions in Bill C-43. And now the Liberals are going to brag that they went further than anyone else.
Nevertheless, Bill C-43 does make certain improvements to the system for providing a framework for lobbyists. Of course it was not that difficult to improve the present legislation, since it was so permissive, smart lobbyists could easily get around it.
Government members, however, will have to admit that the commitments of the red book have been vastly watered down and that Bill C-43, in its present form, will be unlikely to prevent such troubling events as those surrounding the privatization of Pearson airport or the "Dupuy affair", both the first and the latest version. We will not be able to find out more with Bill C-43 than we can under the current legislation.
What is worse, Mitchell Sharp-Who is this guy? The senior advisor to the Prime Minister on ethical issues-admitted before the committee that, even if the statute arising from Bill C-43 had been in effect at the time of the negotiations for the privatization of Pearson airport's terminals I and 2, the public would have learned nothing more.
So what use will Bill C-43 be? What use is the statute arising from this bill if we cannot even find out about the administrative irregularities and the scandals around all this? The government drafted Bill C-43 because of certain events, including the Pearson affair. It has drafted a bill that will not give us any additional information. What are they doing? Why do they bother?
What the public has a right to know, legislators and members of this House are unable to tell them because of the government's attitude and the attitude of the Minister of Industry.
The public has the right to know, for instance, who influences the government, who in government is being influenced, why, and especially, for how much. The Liberals are denying the people's, the taxpayers' legitimate and democratic right to know.
The official opposition has been diligent. We were on the alert. The opposition was quick to condemn the Liberals' lack of courage in their proposals for providing a framework for lobbyists' activities and for ensuring the greatest possible openness in the administration of government affairs. I imagine the Liberals are upset because we were on the alert and did our job as the official opposition.
To try and change the object of this bill, I personally proposed more than 24 amendments in committee, amendments that were motivated only by a concern for transparency. The Minister of Industry ordered his second string to defeat all the amendments moved by the official opposition. I use the term "second string" because the Liberals who were present on Tuesday, March 14 voted against my amendments without being able to explain why.
We reached the height of absurdity when these same Liberals were unable to explain their own cosmetic amendments. It was department officials who explained the Liberals' amendments. Does that not take the cake. I used to know the House jester, I know the Prime Minister's ministerial puppets, now today I get to meet some of the pawns of the Minister of Industry. Nothing in this situation enhances the role of the members of the government.
On Tuesday, April 25, the opposition, again at the report stage, presented over 30 reworded motions in amendment in an effort once again to improve the bill. We were trying once more to give the government the opportunity to amend the bill in order to achieve the objectives that had been set.
All of the amendments were once again defeated by the Liberal government. We have presented over 60 amendments to this bill. They have all been rejected. Sixty amendments have been systematically rejected by the government. The Liberals have therefore said "no" 60 times to transparency. They have said "no" 60 times to government integrity. They have said "no" 60 times to shedding light on the activities of influence peddlers. I will let you draw your own conclusions.
The attitude of the government is incomprehensible, since the aim of the Bloc Quebecois' amendments was, in the end, simply to enable the government to fulfill its own campaign commitments. The Prime Minister in fact reiterated them last June saying that Bill C-43 would give the federal administration unprecedented transparency. Unfortunately, I have to assume that we have had the wool pulled over our eyes. I am not alone in thinking this. Both the francophone and the anglophone press is making this point.
Gilles Lesage, editorial writer for Le Devoir made the following comment a few months ago. I will read it for you: ``The Bloc Quebecois is right in believing that Mr. Manley's bill is watering down hugely the commitments made by the Liberals in their famous red book. Now that they are in power, they must do everything possible to keep their promises. As the opposition is
pointing out, the lobbyists' activities must be better regulated to ensure greater transparency in government decision-making and to ensure that the more fortunate do not have undue access to decision-makers through the actions of the influence peddlers".
In his editorial, Mr. Lesage accurately identified the issue of the bill currently before us. From the time the bill was tabled to when it reached third reading, the government added nothing to give more teeth to the legislation this bill will become.
It simply fussed about, adding cosmetic amendments here and there throughout the bill, without substantially altering the bill in any way.
After it studied the bill, the Bloc Quebecois identified eight major flaws in it and proposed legislative solutions to them. As you know, the government often accuses the official opposition of criticizing without making any constructive suggestions. Yet, as I said earlier, we proposed 60 amendments aimed at improving this bill. These improvements had a very specific goal: to correct the eight flaws in this bill that we had identified very quickly.
I will start by listing these eight flaws, before outlining them in more detail later. The first, very important flaw concerns the ethics counsellor. The other flaws have to do with the types of lobbyists, the requirement to disclose contracts, lobbyists' fees, the contacting of ministers and senior officials, the lobbyists' political ties, coalitions, contingency fees, and tax deductions for lobbyists' fees.
This bill has no avoidance rule or code of conduct for public officials. Finally, this great code of ethics will be practically unenforceable, as I will explain in my last point.
There are eight major shortcomings in Bill C-43, either because it does not go far enough or because it does not even mention the problem.
I could go on for hours about this bill, mostly about the expectations and concerns of taxpayers, because I followed committee proceedings closely, because my mind was not made up before I heard the people's concerns, because my only goal was to answer the questions raised by English Canada and especially by the Quebec people, instead of trying to please the lucky few who can afford to send lobbyists to Parliament Hill by exempting them.
Within the time allocated to me, I will try to explain clearly each of the flaws I identified in this bill. As I said earlier, the first flaw concerns the ethics counsellor. Need I remind the House of the Minister of Canadian Heritage's troubling interference in CRTC business or the Ritter affair involving a senior official at the Department of Health who, while still on the department's payroll, was lobbying his coworkers, trying to sell them on the merits of bovine somatotropin?
Also, when we look at Pearson International Airport, the helicopter acquisition contract, the Augusta affair as well as the recent damning positions taken by the Prime Minister and his cabinet ministers to benefit Power Corporation and, at the same time, the Prime Minister's own son-in-law, when we look at all that and at the government's attitude regarding the heritage minister's quiet trip to Los Angeles to visit Edgar Bronfman, owner of the Seagram Company, one can only wonder and be concerned.
Especially when the Prime Minister does not even consult his ethics counsellor or when he does but systematically refuses to tell us what advice he was given, when he will not tell the elected representatives sitting in this House what his ethics counsellor has recommended.
This deplorable window dressing clearly shows that the ethics counsellor is not independent enough to assume as crucial and fundamental a role as that of transparency watchdog in the federal administration. The Prime Minister probably just wanted to have an extra advisor on his staff. Smoke screens only hide the truth.
This appointment is therefore nothing but a sham to fool the public into believing that the government is actually doing something, taking concrete action to restore integrity in Canadian institutions. In actual fact, the counsellor conducts only secret investigations and accounts only to the Prime Minister. What does that give us, the elected represeantatives? And what does it give the people of Canada? Absolutely nothing.
So, we, in the Bloc Quebecois, believe that ethics, transparency and public confidence in democratic institutions and government management are not matters to be left in the hands of a political party, a government or a Prime Minister, but rather to be decided on by democratic institutions, the House of Commons and the elected representatives of the people.
In that regard, one of the government's star witnesses, Simon Reisman, the president of Ranger Oil Limited, supported the Bloc's views on the subject. Let me quote him because what he told the chair of the committee, who was a Liberal and had to submit a report to the minister, was extremely important. He said: "If we get into the business of a code of ethics to govern the behaviour of the members of this industry, it ought to be kept out of partisan politics as far as you possibly can. I think one good way of doing that is to make the appointment an appointment by Parliament, rather than by the government of the day. You are more likely to get someone more objective. If he is appointed by Parliament, I think he should report to Parliament-which is the recommendation in any event".
And he added: "There is another reason I think he should be reporting to Parliament and should be subject to accountability to Parliament. Members of Parliament, who are elected under a democratic process, have the mandate to legislate and they have the right to review legislation. In our democratic society, they are in the best position to prevent any abuse of power. The ethics counsellor will undoubtedly be a very powerful official". That statement was made by a government star witness, who testified at the committee's request. Yet, nothing in Bill C-43 reflects the recommendations made by that witness.
Do you really think that the ethics counsellor, who will work for the government and look after its interests, will be very powerful? I do not think that this is what taxpayers were hoping for when they heard the Liberals' election promises. An ethics counsellor, sure, but one who has some investigative powers and who is not under the Prime Minister's thumb. This is what the public wanted. What we need is a totally independent ethics counsellor who is accountable to Parliament. This means that he can hold public inquiries and report on his work, on his findings and on the reasons supporting his conclusions to the House of Commons.
I am also very concerned by the fact that Bill C-43 does not delegate any enforcement powers to the ethics counsellor. I fear that the counsellor will end up being like a traffic cop with no authority to give tickets. If you listen to the Liberals these days, you get the impression that they simply want to set up a system which will be administered behind closed doors, so that patronage can still go on without anyone really knowing what is happening. In my mind, that is what is going on right now. Is it not strange that the tabling of Bill C-43 would coincide with such a scandal?
A second flaw, equally significant, shows how the Liberals reversed their position on the tier system for lobbyists. In June 1993, after examining the Lobbyists Registration Act, a committee of the House of Commons recommended eliminating the distinction between first tier and second tier lobbyists. In fact, this was the first recommendation in the Holtmann report. The members who signed this report, including the hon. member for Glengarry-Prescott-Russell, the hon. member for St. Boniface, the hon. member for Kingston and the Islands and the hon. member for Broadview-Greenwood, who were all in the opposition at the time, agreed with the principle of eliminating the tier system. I assume they are not going to deny that. You are not going to deny you signed the Holtmann report. You signed it, and you agreed with its recommendations. Today, those very same members who are now government whip, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Revenue, Deputy Leader of the Government and lastly, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Industry, are no longer on side.