Mr. Speaker, the goal of the motion before us today is to strike a special joint committee of the House and the Senate to review the weighty issue of parliamentary ethics.
We are counting on this committee to establish a practical and realistic code of conduct which will help balance the official responsibilities and personal interests of MPs and Senators. This issue obviously affects each member of this House personally while having a wider, much more fundamental scope: it also affects all Canadians. Our conduct as individuals and as a group, in fact, determines the level of confidence that Canadians have in parliamentarians. The way we carry out our daily tasks as parliamentarians molds our institution's image. The trust of
those who elected us to this noble House is either earned or lost by our conduct from day to day.
The important issues of trust, credibility and ethics are at the heart of the agenda we presented to Canadians during the last election campaign.
In fact, we devoted an entire chapter of our red book to parliamentary integrity. We clearly stated the principles whereby we recognize the following: "The most important asset of government is the confidence it enjoys of the citizens to whom it is accountable". We also recognized that the Canadian government would be unable to play the constructive role which it must unless, first and foremost, it restores the integrity of our political institutions.
Since being elected 18 months ago, we have made considerable progress in this area. We reinforced the code of conduct for cabinet members and senior officials. We also appointed an ethics counsellor to help our officials apply these rules correctly. We drastically reduced the range of political appointments.
My colleague, the President of the Privy Council, examined the role and operations of 120 agencies, commissions, councils and advisory committees. At the end of this exercise, on February 16 he announced that 665 positions filled by order in council appointments would be abolished. He ordered 73 agencies to be closed down and 47 others to be restructured.
This initiative alone will save the government as much as $10 million annually. However, it is more than just a matter of efficiency and saving money. It is also an indication that the government does not intend to use political appointments as a way to reward its supporters.
We also reformed the pension plan of members of Parliament which for too long has been a source of controversy. Last week, there was a debate in this House on a bill that will provide a framework for the activities of lobbyists, and today, we are about to create a committee to develop a code of conduct to guide senators and members of the House of Commons.
It is this systematic, methodical and orderly approach to questions that touch on ethical issues that is now helping to restore public confidence in our political institutions.
In an impressive speech yesterday to a meeting of Liberal militants in Trois-Rivières, our Prime Minister once again stressed the importance of integrity and ethical conduct. He pointed out that after 18 months in government, no member of cabinet had resigned or been dismissed for ethical reasons. During a comparable period, the previous government saw at least six resignations from cabinet.
I am not saying we are perfect. To err is human, and errors of judgment do occur, but by acting prudently, according to clearcut rules, we will, both individually and collectively, manage to restore the trust of our fellow citizens.
The role of parliamentarians is difficult and often complex. Society expects all individuals to be as free as possible to manage their economic interests. It also expects that those in public office will not, in the exercise of their duties, be involved in matters in which they have personal financial interests. Some feel that Parliament should enact stiffer laws, others fear that stricter rules will discourage competent individuals from becoming involved in public affairs.
We are looking for a balance. We want rules strict enough to prevent practices contravening the code of ethics and to maintain the reputation of Parliament and parliamentarians among the public. However, we do not want rules that discourage competent individuals from entering public life and serving their fellow citizens. We must strike a balance that allows us to attract the people who are best prepared and most able to lead the country and have them governed by a set of rules that will keep them above all suspicion.
Conflicts of interest are not new. They have always existed. What has changed are people's and taxpayers' attitudes and levels of tolerance.
We have a practical and precise code of ethics governing members of Cabinet and their staff, parliamentary secretaries and senior public servants. We have nothing, however, for members of Parliament and senators. Traditionally, the public has felt they had little importance, individually, in the decision making process. I must disagree.
Members of Parliament have increasing influence on the process. Their role in the various parliamentary committees is growing in importance. Their influence in their individual caucuses is expanding, and their votes on bills before the House is always decisive.
On each issue, in each debate, members of Parliament must reflect, analyze the effect of their decisions on the lives of their constituents and decide on their individual approaches. They are entirely free to defend their viewpoint in the legislative process. They may propose changes and amendments, they may influence their colleagues' thinking. This process of analysis and choice is repeated hundreds of times during the mandate of a member of Parliament. This is why we have a Parliament and this is why members are elected.
However, throughout our term of office, we remain full fledged citizens. We are all taxpayers and consumers. Most of us are parents and many own property. In this regard, we are very much like Canadians as a whole. We may therefore assume that
these essentially undistinguishing characteristics have very little influence on our behaviour as legislators. Some criteria are more regional or specific in nature.
Some parliamentarians share the concerns of their constituents, in areas such as agriculture, fisheries or natural resources for example. Family businesses raise some problems because they encompass a whole range of assets, profits or debts and financial interests. It is usually interests such as these which are covered by conflict of interest legislation.
Maybe we should first of all agree on what constitutes a conflict of interest. There are several definitions. Mr. Justice Parker defined the real conflict of interest as a situation where a minister-or a member of Parliament or a senator-is aware of private financial interests sufficient to exert some influence on the performance of his other official duties and responsibilities.
Therefore, rules must be defined in order to prevent the financial interests of parliamentarians from exerting an influence on the decisions they make while exercising their duties. Several control methods have been tested over the years. Some have proven to be efficient. The first one is disclosure, that is the disclosure of one's assets to a designated person. This information can then be recorded for reference purposes or be made public. When their private interests are known, the holders of public office are less tempted to act in their own interest.
Prevention forces parliamentarians to divest themselves of interests or associations which may distort their judgment, either by selling the interests to third parties with whom they are at arm's length, or by placing them in blind trusts. Finally, relinquishing these interests will prevent parliamentarians from intervening in matters involving personal gain.
Any code of ethics contains a number of such controls. It will be up to the special joint committee members to review these mechanisms and to decide whether they should apply to MPs and senators or whether it would be more desirable to resort to some other kind of control. The committee has all the latitude it needs to consult experts, and to consult with those to whom the code of conduct will apply, in order to come up with a firm, clear and realistic code. The committee will have to take into account the fact that parliamentarians carry on other activities in parallel with their legislative work.
Members from all parties manage significant budgets, their budget as MPs. They must use this money wisely and prudently. MPs represent the citizens of their riding. It is an important part of their mandate. This requires regular attendance and the necessary amount of time. Finally, MPs are often required to represent Canada and Parliament abroad.
These many facets of an MP's mandate raise a number of questions which the committee will probably want to review in detail. First, the committee will certainly want to set rules to avoid conflicts of interest. It will certainly want to question the judiciousness of allowing MPs and senators to pursue other professional activities during their mandate. It will also want to analyze the conditions surrounding our parliamentarians' public or private visits abroad. We want to make sure that these activities are entirely compatible with the Parliament's objectives of transparency and integrity.
The committee will certainly want to review all the rules we are subjected to at the present time. They need to be evaluated to see if they are sufficiently clear, strict and practical for every parliamentarian to be able to abide by them. Finally, the committee has been given the specific mandate to study the relationship between parliamentarians and lobbyists. I believe all members want lobbying activities to be well defined and they will be happy to implement the rules established by the committee.
The committee's task will not be an easy one. Several attempts have been made to give Parliament a code of conduct and they all failed along the way. This time however, there is a political will. This government has said its administration would focus on ethics. This time, all members of all political parties want to restore confidence in Parliament. We have all chosen to serve the public. We want to do it honestly, freely and openly. Even though they might be restrictive, the present rules of ethics governing many of us are precious tools that help us carry out our mandate in a transparent and effective manner.
Quite often, we question the pertinence of an action, the necessity of an intervention, the timeliness of an initiative. In such instances of doubt and questioning, the rules of ethics give us the information and support we need to make the right decisions.
So I ask all members of this House to support and help those who must develop that new code of conduct. Their work and wisdom will profit not only each and every one of us in Parliament, but also Canadians as a whole.
I know that the Bloc Quebecois, the official opposition, proposed an amendment to exclude the Senate from this exercise. I know very well that the position of the Bloc is to ignore the Senate, but this is not the problem today. The Senate is part of our parliamentary institutions, it completes Parliament. If we want to establish a code of conduct which will make Quebecers and Canadians look upon their politicians with confidence in all their activities, and if we want to proceed according to the rules, can we disregard the other place? We have a two chamber Parliament and until that is changed I do not believe that we can give ourselves a set of rules and leave the other place without such rules, if we want to settle this question once and for all. For the last decade or so, I think each Parliament has studied this difficult, but important issue.
As I said earlier, I believe that this time the government and the other political parties are willing to adopt a code of conduct. Such a code should not be an half-baked affair. It should be complete and we should support the motion of the government House leader so the Special Joint Committee of the House and the Senate can start its work as soon as possible, with a view to making recommendations that will provide members and senators with a tool which will allow them to represent the people of Canada with pride and dignity. That is why we are here.
I hope that by the end of the day, or whenever this debate is finished, the House can give a clear mandate to the special joint committee, supported by all parties, all members of Parliament, and the Senate, so that the committee can begin its mandate and can come back to both Houses with a full report and recommendations once and for all, after so many years.
I tried before I prepared my speech to go back as far as I could to see how many reports have been made. There are many. I know the previous government tried four bills and never succeeded.
I believe this time the government, the opposition parties, and all members of Parliament are clearly interested in solving this problem and giving a clear code of ethics. We can succeed. In order to succeed we must be united so that we can give a clear mandate to the committee. I hope when the question is put we are united in creating this special joint committee as soon as possible.