Mr. Speaker, it is a privilege to speak to this motion. I congratulate the government for initiating action with regard to a code of conduct for parliamentarians. If history teaches us anything it is that the House needs to be aware of the need for a code of conduct. It needs to be aware that Canadians expect ethical behaviour from us. My hope is a code will be developed and that it will be effective. I hope it will have some real teeth, not like the ethics counsellor who we saw the Prime Minister appoint, and not some watered down list of suggestions which will have as its only purpose a public relations exercise of so-called government action on ethics.
I am concerned because of the government's failure to carry through on any of its red book promises for a more open and ethical government. While the concept of a code of conduct to guide members in their dealings with lobbyists is a good idea, I have some serious doubts as to the government's willingness to follow through with effective guidelines.
Let us take, for example, the position of the ethics counsellor. Rather than having an independent counsellor accountable to Parliament, as the red book said, the Prime Minister has decided to keep the issue of ethics in house, behind closed doors. By only
reporting to the Prime Minister the ethics counsellor has lost the appearance of independence and objectivity. This restriction was underscored during the debacle over the Minister of Canadian Heritage's interference with the CRTC.
There are precendents for positions such as the ethics counsellor to be officers of the House of Commons. The human rights commissioner, the chief electoral officer, the auditor general and the privacy commissioner are all answerable to the House, not to the government. They are not answerable to cabinet or to the Prime Minister; they are answerable to the House. That is important.
In each case it is clear an arm's length relationship with the government is required for those officers to objectively and adequately discharge their responsibilities. The same is true for the ethics counsellor and for any type of code of conduct for parliamentarians.
My concern is that the government wanted to give the impression of ethics without actually changing anything. That is the only reason I can see for not making the ethics counsellor an officer of Parliament. It is a very select group. It is not as though there is no room for change any more. Being an independent officer of the House would allow the ethics counsellor to promote the ethical conduct of members of the House instead of its current position of being a political lap-dog of the Prime Minister.
Despite all the rhetoric about open government and more independence for backbenchers the government has continued the tradition of secrecy and whipping members into line. I have seen many government members speak in favour of some of the ideas expressed on this side of the House only to withdraw and toe the party line when their voice really counted, when they stood up in the House to vote, when they voted in committee or when they had to sign on to committee reports. That is not active and quality democracy and that is not representative democracy.
Our debates in the Chamber on gun control are a good example of how the government really feels about open government. When some of its members chose out of good conscience to represent their constituents rather than do the bidding of the party hierarchy they were reprimanded. Imagine that. They were reprimanded for daring to do the bidding of the constituents who sent us here, who pay the bills, who pay our salaries and who even pay for our pensions.
These are the reasons I am concerned that this code of conduct must be carefully and properly crafted. This government does not have a good track record of being proactive on ethical matters. If we can draft a good code of conduct, it may add some much needed legitimacy to the ethics counsellor.
The importance of having this kind of code of conduct cannot be overemphasized. This government obviously needs some guidelines when it comes to ethical dealings with lobbyists. The whole Pearson scandal is the best example of closed door unethical activity. This deal was started by the previous Tory government and the closed door antics have been continued by this government.
There is the whole issue of José Perez and his dealings with Senator De Bané and Canada Post. As well, the Minister of Canadian Heritage has had questionable dealings with the CRTC in the past and is under a cloud of suspicion once again.
The need for this kind of a code of conduct is self-evident. I only hope the Liberals have the political courage to put aside their self-interests and the interests of their well-connected friends and family members to draft an effective and complete code.
While having a committee draft this code is an improvement over the usual closed door cabinet process, I have some concerns about the make-up of the committee. I do not believe that senators should be included on a House of Commons committee. Let me take a few minutes to tell this House why I have some concerns.
Having senators involved with drafting a code of conduct dealing with issues like conflict of interest is a bit like having the inmates running the asylum. It is a bit like putting violent offenders on the parole board. It just does not make sense. I do not understand why this Liberal government would promote such a ridiculous idea.
I will not make these suggestions without backing them up with facts. Not very many years ago, a Prime Minister by the name of Mulroney stacked the Senate with eight senators. Why did he do that? To put through the GST.
What would happen if some of those senators who agreed to accept those extra positions above the 104 senators ended up on this ethics committee? I am a bit concerned about that. What if the Hon. Eric Berntson from Saskatchewan, one of the stacked senators, ended up on this ethics committee? He was the one who said: "I will never accept a government appointment. I refuse any government appointments". A week or two later when Brian Mulroney asked if he would take a Senate seat to help him get the GST through, he said: "Yes, I would love to sit in the Senate. The rest of my life will be cushy. I will do that for you". The Liberal government defends that type of action and I am shocked.
There was another member in that group of select senators. They had to put stacking chairs in the Senate to accommodate these extra senators. His name was the Hon. John Buchanan. He was considered to be the most efficient bagmen in all of Atlantic Canada. Is this the type of person we want to allow to sit on a committee to discuss a code of conduct and to consider conflict of interest? I am shocked that the Liberals would suggest and promote such an idea.
There are a couple of other people who sit over in the other place: the Hon. Guy Charbonneau and the Hon. Michel Cogger. Their names were in the news for a long time. I remember reading about them in almost every chapter of Stevie Cameron's book On the Take .
Are these the kinds of people the hon. member for Kingston and the Islands wants to see sitting on a committee to draft a code of conduct for parliamentarians? Perhaps they may be the result of an investigation rather than the ones who are drafting the code. The Liberals are putting forward a motion in this House which would allow them to sit on this committee. I am shocked. I would ask the Liberals to withdraw the motion, come to their senses and realize what they are doing.
There is another potential candidate for this committee. Her name is Marjory LeBreton. She was the director of Tory patronage, the one who decided which Tories got put in which position of patronage. She probably even had a hand in determining who Brian Mulroney would place in the Senate. Perhaps she had a hand in choosing the six senators to sit on those six stacking stools that the Minister of Transport has correctly identified. Would the Minister of Transport agree to have Marjory LeBreton sitting on a code of conduct committee? This motion would allow that to happen. I am shocked.
There is another one over there, Pierre Claude Nolin. He was Brian Mulroney's crony in Quebec, his principal adviser in the province of Quebec. He accepted his appointment right at the tail end of the Mulroney era, when the whole country was angry at Brian Mulroney and his government and the people wanted to kick them out.