The Hon. Pierre Claude Nolin was appointed. I think it was in June 1993 that he accepted his appointment.
Do we want somebody, a friend of a government Canadians considered to be villainous to be sitting on the committee for the code of conduct, to be determining the code of ethics we should be living by? I am shocked. I can hardly believe it.
There is someone else who might happen to be involved in the committee and who happens to be a Liberal, the Hon. Allan J. MacEachen. He is considered to be the godfather of the Liberals in Atlantic Canada. He has a reputation that one member on the front bench is trying to emulate.
There is an article in Maclean's which says: Then comes the minister of public works, a show stopper. The incantatory, drawn out delivery of Allan J. MacEachen, the long time federal Liberal minister from Cape Breton who now sits in the Senate.Close your eyes'', says one of the acquaintances of both men, ``and you will swear Allan J. is right there in the room''. There is only one Allan J, the minister explains with an annoying chuckle.
Then it goes on to talk about how Hon. Allan J. MacEachen was a godfather in Atlantic Canada and certainly someone involved in patronage. Certainly, he is someone that we would not want on a committee to discuss and draft a code of ethics for parliamentarians, but this is what the Liberals are intending to do.
There is another problem with this committee. Right now the Senate is controlled by the Tories. I understand that the Prime Minister is working overtime to install his own hacks. The Minister of Transport knows that the Senate is controlled by the Tories. He is having some problems with the Pearson airport affair.
The Tories are also worried. A few hundred of them met across the river over the weekend. They were planning strategy. Their strategy was: "How do we get back on the gravy train? We are not getting many appointments to the Senate anymore and we miss that". They are strategizing how to get back into government so they can get back on the gravy train and see some of their own appointed to the Senate.
Too many of the old Mulroney gang had their eyes on a red covered chair in the Senate. And these are the people we want to be involved in drafting a code of ethics for us, for the elected members of the House of Commons? I think not. Some code of conduct that might be.
The group of Tories that met in Hull over the weekend did not apologize to Canadians for the despicable things they did when they were in power. They should have. They did not apologize to Canadians for increasing our debt from about $200 billion to over $400 billion. They never said they were sorry. And these are the kind of people the Liberals want to put on an ethics committee? I think not.
The Tories imposed the GST on Canadians against their will and they had to stack the Senate to do it. These are the kinds of people we want to put on an ethics committee?
The Tories, along with the Liberals, were involved in drafting the Charlottetown accord, the infamous accord that had some terrible things in it. One item in the Charlottetown accord called for a double majority in the Senate regarding votes on matters respecting language and culture. That meant that if there was an issue that addressed language or culture, not only did the majority of senators have to vote in favour of the measure, but a majority of francophone senators had to vote in favour it. That is not democratic.
It is not democratic that they are unelected, but then they get a double majority based on language and ethnic origin? That is disgusting. Yet the people over there want these types of people to sit on an ethics committee. I am astounded. I cannot believe it.
The Charlottetown accord said that this new Senate would be elected. Members on the other side brought that to our attention. Of course we knew it would be elected, but who wants that type of an elected Senate? What decent person would run for election to that kind of a Senate? I do not think we would find very many good candidates that would agree to sit in a body that would use a double majority on votes relating to language and culture. That is disgusting. It is not Canadian and it is not true democracy. Yet the Liberals want these kinds of people to sit on a committee to draft a code of conduct for parliamentarians.
The Tories never apologized for doing these things. The Liberals have not apologized for their role in the Charlottetown accord, although there were two or three of them who I think did see the light and spoke against the accord. The majority as usual followed like sheep to the slaughter and lost the Charlottetown accord.
Canadians are not as thoughtless as many members on the other side might think. They see through these things and were appalled at the Charlottetown accord. They were appalled at the debt the Tories built up. They said it was immoral, that it was wrong. Because of that they only elected two Tory members to the House in the last election. They said that the GST was wrong as well. When two or three Tories stood up and said they would not vote for the GST, they were disciplined just like the Liberals were who voted against the gun control measure. Nothing is different between the Liberals and the Tories. They stand for the same principles. Did I say principles? I do not think they stand for any principles. It is disgusting.
These people want to draft a code of conduct, a code of ethics for parliamentarians? I think not.
The Senate certainly needs a code of conduct. The member for Kingston and the Islands has talked about it. Do they not want senators to have a code of conduct? Do they not want them to be accountable? The first thing is that they need to be accountable to the people of Canada. Until we change the Constitution that will not happen. Perhaps rather than abolishing the Senate we should be talking about abolishing the appointed senators. That might be a move in the right direction.
I have spoken at some length on this matter and will conclude before my time runs out. I want to clearly say to the House that we do need a code of conduct. We do need to know how to deal with lobbyists. That is important. However, we certainly do not want direction from the old Tory gang. That would be a disaster. That is far less than Canadians deserve in this place. We must not support a joint committee to deal with the issue of ethics and a code of conduct.
Perhaps the Liberals have seen the error of their ways. I know they did quite a bit of yelling over there because they have been told they have to support this motion. It is government policy and they have no choice. However, they should just step back for a minute and think logically about what they are doing. They are supporting the old Tory ways. They are not being any different.
There are several new MPs over on the other side who have not been tainted with that Tory-Liberal past of previous Parliaments. Perhaps this is the time for them to stand up and be counted and vote against something that is not right. Let them do something right for a change, not just for themselves, not just for the Liberal Party, not just for the House of Commons, but for Canadians.