Debates of May 3rd, 1995

Sustainable Development

[Julian Reed, Liberal, Halton—Peel, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of National Resources.

Today at noon a group representing all parties in the House met with the forest industry for a very interesting hour. The subject of sustainable development was raised.

I would like the minister to tell the House to date how the government has addressed the subject of sustainable development.

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, it is fair to say, whether it is fish, forests or other natural resources, the government is committed to their sustainable development.

Let me reassure the hon. member Canada is viewed around the world as the leading nation in terms of sustainable forestry development.

Let me highlight a few of the things we have done as a government: the development of the national forestry accord, the development of criteria and indicators to define sound forestry practices. Our model forest program: there are 10 model forests in Canada that are living laboratories of research and science.

Recently in New York my colleague, the Minister of the Environment, on my behalf and on behalf of this nation led the way in terms of the establishment of an intergovernmental committee on sustainable forestry.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

Immigration

[Osvaldo Nunez, Bloc, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration. After grossly mishandling the case involving an Algerian filmmaker, Ms. Koudil, immigration officials are now denying visitors' visas to three Algerian actors, Benguettaf, Ayad and El-Kalaa, who were to perform in a play denouncing the rise of fundamentalism in Algeria as part of the Theatre Festival of the Americas in Montreal.

Does the minister intend to move quickly to issue visitors' visas to the three Algerian actors, so that a repeat of the Algerian filmmaker fiasco can be avoided?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member knows or should know I do not believe it is wise for ministerial interventions ad nauseam at the visitor visa level.

There are a million applications around the world. Your leader was the ambassador to France.

[The Speaker]

I ask the hon. minister to please invoke the chair.

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, York West, ON]

The Leader of the Opposition was at one point the ambassador to France. There were a number of applications made under his tenure. Some were refused and some were accepted. Individuals refused have every opportunity, if the member checks with his leader, to put in a new application.

With respect to the film maker, there was not a policy of favouritism; there was a policy of fairness. The film maker made a new application and convinced the visa officer her application was justified.

If these three individuals have some complaint or there is misinformation then the process is very transparent and very simple. They are to come forward once again and make a new application without political intervention, whether by this member or this minister.

[Translation]

[Osvaldo Nunez, Bloc, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Speaker, are we to understand from the minister's answer that he does not intend to budge and that only a general outcry in Quebec, as occurred in the case of the Algerian filmmaker, can spur him to action?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, this is the kind of game that does a disservice to the very portfolio the member tries to protect.

The member just said unless you change there will be pressure mounted to make the system change. I ask the member, who came to this country as a political refugee claimant, whether he wants a system amenable simply by pressure and tactics of a community, wherever they are, or does he believe there ought to be a system in place that allows for applications to be made and if there is a negative determination for the applicant to make another application?

Does the member know that under the Immigration Act I do not have the power or the authority to overturn a visitor visa application? The member ought to know that and play by the rules rather than create special rules for some people.

Canada Health Act

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Keith Banting, a social policy expert, said: "This government's fiscal policies are eroding the Canada Health Act by stealth". These harsh words join a chorus who agree with Reform: Tom Courchesne, the Canadian Medical Association and others.

Will the government openly table changes to the Canada Health Act to preserve medicare?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance and the Prime Minister said we do not intend to present changes to the Canada Health Act as such. There is clarification in the budget, but the principles of the Canada Health Act are there very definitely.

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians were asked last week whether they think health care is affordable. Ninety per cent said they think health care will deal with fewer services in the future than now. Even the Prime Minister said medicare must return to basics.

Reformers say let us make these changes in the open with consultation rather than by default and with stealth.

Again, will the Prime Minister open the Canada Health Act to open review?

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, this government said in the budget and the Minister of Finance has said repeatedly that the Canada Health Act is not negotiable.

The hon. member is discussing funding of medicare. We know that many reputable studies have now shown that we spend more as a percentage of our GDP for health care than most other nations with systems of medicare like ours. We can manage our system better and we can make a better system, a more efficient and a more affordable system, by looking at health care renewal in terms of management changes, in terms of moving from acute care to community care, in terms of looking at technology assessment, assessing outcomes and guidelines for care. We can save a great deal of money and provide a better system of health care.

Gasoline Prices

[John Solomon, NDP, Regina—Lumsden, SK]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Industry.

An Ottawa gasoline retailer, Mr. Gas, has admitted that communications between gasoline retailers are common in the industry when setting prices. We have seen six increases in gasoline prices in less than year, all uniform across Canada and uniform from company to company, with no justification, resulting in a 25 per cent increase to consumers and accusations of price fixing.

The minister in the House last Friday said in response to my question: "When the prices are the same it is consistent with both competition and price fixing, so how do you know which it is?"

Given this Liberal government confusion and the admission by the company, Mr. Gas, will the minister now roll back prices until an inquiry can be held on gas prices to determine if price fixing is taking place or to have oil companies justify these increases? Failing a rollback, will he at least hold a price inquiry?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, of course it would be inappropriate to comment on the circumstances of a case that is before the courts at the present time.

What I do make clear again to the member is that first, as he knows, the government does not have the power to roll back prices. Second, I believe the most effective way to ensure the lowest possible prices is through real and sustained competition.

The purpose of the Competition Act is to achieve real competition. The director endeavours to enforce that. But we do live in a system of law, and it does require proof when somebody alleges an offence.

It is easy for the hon. member to stand in the House of Commons and say: "Look, the prices are all the same; there is an offence". I suggest to him that it is somewhat more challenging to get a conviction in the courts. I prefer to see people convicted in the courts on the basis of evidence.

Question Of Privilege

[Osvaldo Nunez, Bloc, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Speaker, a moment ago, I asked the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration a question concerning visitors' visas for three Algerian actors. I feel that the minister attacked me in his answer by improperly mentioning my status as a political refugee.

True, I came here 21 years ago and settled in Quebec but today I have the same rights as any other citizen or any other member of the House of Commons, and I find it unacceptable that the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration-

[The Speaker]

Dear colleagues, I think that this is not a question of privilege but a matter for debate. As you know, during Question Period and during debates, we sometimes use very strong words, but I hope that all our colleagues in the House will choose their words wisely during debates.

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, let me respond to the member and his colleagues.

When I referred to the individual having come to Canada and been given refugee status, in the same way my family came to this country in 1958-

[An hon. member]

But they knew they were coming to Canada; there is a difference.

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, York West, ON]

-I was trying to infer that there is a process in train that we ought to respect, and not a process that can be changed simply like a faucet, depending on the day or on the pressure. That is the point I was trying to make.

[The Speaker]

I would like to close this matter and go to Routine Proceedings.

Government Response To Petitions

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Secretary of State (Parliamentary Affairs) and Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8), I have the honour to table, in both official languages, the government's response to seven petitions.

Interparliamentary Delegations

[Barry Campbell, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 34(1), I have the honour to present to the House, in both official languages, the report of the Canada-Europe Parliamentary Association to the Council of Europe committee on economic affairs and development session on the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development, held in London, United Kingdom, from February 18 to February 21, 1995.

Committees Of The House

[Stan Keyes, Liberal, Hamilton West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present to the House, in both official languages, the third report of the Standing Committee on Transport, entitled "A National Marine Strategy".

In February and March of this year the committee travelled to 10 cities and heard over 85 hours of testimony.

I am proud to present the fruit of these labours contained herein, and wish to thank the members and staff of my committee for their dedication and hard work and the over 170 individuals and organizations whose efforts and contributions made this report possible.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I just want to add that the Bloc

Quebecois will be appending to this report of the Standing Committee on Transport a rather elaborate dissenting report, which is at least one third as thick as the report presented by the Liberal majority.