They certainly would not. They are telling Canadians they are to blame for whatever fate befalls them in the labour market unless they can prove a specific act of discrimination.
When I come to give my seminar to the Reform Party-in the interest of the Canadian way I might even do it for free-I will be happy to explain the concept of systemic discrimination, what it means and how we differentiate between quotas and numerical goals. We have learned that change does come but it comes slowly and needs regular reinforcement and constant support by government and legislation.
As the Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister has already said and I can only reinforce, one cannot legislate attitudes. If members need an example of this, look across the way.
Many employers have taken their role in employment equity quite seriously. They have taken a hard look at their practices and they see they are not fair. They have moved from simply trying to eliminate blatantly unjust policies to developing ones that correct problems.
People like my hon. colleagues have brought forth in their idea of jest the question in so far as it relates to women and employment equity. They ask about men's groups, are there any men's groups? Yes, there are. It is called western civilization. There is a long way to go. There are still inequalities that deserve to be addressed.
I bring these to the attention of the hon. members opposite. I will focus my remarks on the cold, hard statistical facts that show we have a problem when it comes to equality. They can bury their heads in the sand but all they will do is get sand up their noses.
Let me start with one piece of good news. Members of visible minorities who graduated from universities and community colleges in 1990 earned approximately the same average salary in 1992 as others who graduated that year but they did not fair as well in the other three measures of disadvantaged. Those
graduates were more likely to be unemployed, had lower participation rates and were more likely to be concentrated in lower level occupations such as clerical work.
There is plenty of other evidence that members of visible minorities face overwhelming difficulties in employment. The 1991 census showed these people tend to be better educated than the general population. Eighteen per cent reported a university degree compared with only 11 per cent in the general population. Again, they tend to have higher unemployment rates.
The unemployment rate of visible minority university graduates was 9.4 per cent in that census, whereas in the general population it was 4.1 per cent. Does that say something to my friends opposite? Heaven knows.
Among those who were working, visible minority university graduates were twice as likely to be in low levels, clerical, sales and service occupations, as non-visible minority men. That imbalance was reversed when the census looked at employment in upper levels, middle levels and other management jobs.
Some of my hon. friends might argue it was just the kinds of programs these people took. Even here the facts provide no comfort to their narrow view. When we look at the census data for people with degrees in commerce, business or management we are looking at people with degrees in tangible skills regardless of race or colour.
Why were 28 per cent of non-visible minority males with this kind of useful education in management occupations compared with only 16 per cent of visible minority members with similar degrees? Why were the earnings of visible minorities only 60 per cent of what the others made? It is ludicrous for anyone to stand in the House and suggest all this comes back to bad choices.
I hope enough facts will show hon. members of the Reform Party their glib explanations do not work in real life. I remind them, especially those who want to make inroads in my part of the world, that in Atlantic Canada we understand the questions of inequality. If they want to make inroads there perhaps they had better listen to some of this.