Let us examine the rhetoric from this side of the House when the members who are over on the government side now were over here. We had the famous rat pack. I think we all know who they are. They enjoy some of the front benches over there now. What did they say? They called for a change to the MP pension plan. My understanding is that when the President of the Treasury Board brought in what was a reasonable plan in December to the Liberal caucus, they were the ones who led the charge against it. So the rat pack it seems has become the fat cat pack these days. We see this every day.
Who is going to be the judge of this MP pension plan? It is not me as the member for Peace River, in the final analysis. It is not going to be the member for St. Boniface. It is going to be the Canadian public, the voters, our constituents.
The member for St. Boniface said that we should carefully consider and consult our family members when and if we decide to opt out. He would seem to suggest that we have not been doing that. Well I do not believe that other members of the Reform Party caucus did not consult their families. I know I certainly did, and it was a joint decision. However, it becomes more than consulting family. I also consulted constituents. I have been doing it for a long time. And constituents tell us that this plan is still far too generous.
The member also seemed to lump the business of pay and salary into the MP pension plan. It is all part and parcel as far as he is concerned. I do not believe it is. I believe that if we have a problem or we do not believe the pay is high enough for a member of Parliament, we should deal with that issue up front and involve the Canadian public in that discussion. This is a separate matter altogether, and it has to be dealt with that way.
The member for St. Boniface also talked about the RRSP. He suggested that the Canadian taxpayer would be on the hook for more money through a loss in taxes if we went the route of all members opting out and using the RRSP. There is certainly some merit in what he says, but it is not making special rules; it is following rules under the RRSP program that other Canadians are under. So we are all in the same category. That is talking about having the same standard for everybody.
I know that many members of our caucus intend to use that route once we are able to access our money that is being currently collected under the MP pension plan, the 11 per cent that is being deducted, to put it into RRSPs. Many of us have been doing that for a long time. I think it shows leadership in the fact that we are willing to look after our own retirement. That is what a lot of Canadians are going to have to do in the future, because the old age security plan and Canada pension plan are not sustainable. The reason they are not sustainable is that this country is in very serious financial problems.
I know the Minister of Finance recognized that to some degree in his budget when he suggested that we need to cut $4 billion in services to Canadians. He also said we should raise a billion dollars in taxes. It was very interesting that in doing so we would almost expect the federal budget for this year to be decreased by $5 billion, the amount of those cuts and the extra money that is being raised. In fact, the budget is going to be higher by almost half a billion dollars. Why is that? It is because the interest on the debt is starting to be a very serious problem in this country. It is taking a larger and larger portion of our government budget.
It is eating into those necessary services we are talking about, both the Canada pension plan and old age security. We need to encourage people to look after themselves through their own retirement savings. That does not mean the Government of
Canada is doing it for them, such as the MPs. It means that they look after themselves through RRSPs and any other private plan they can put in place.
I am going to wrap up here. To me, the most important thing is that the Canadian public will be the final judge of this plan. If cautions are going to be issued by members across the way in regard to the seriousness of opting out, we should also be cognizant that the Canadian public is watching very closely what is happening in this Chamber today during this debate on the MPs pension plan.
The public wants a plan that is reasonable, that is consistent with national standards for both the public and private sectors, not anything MPs give themselves over and above what is the norm in Canadian society. The public will be the final judge next election day. I throw that out as a caution to members opposite.