Madam Speaker, I appreciate the question from the Reform House leader.
I would like to make two points. First, two months ago the former leader of the New Democratic Party announced that he would not be receiving his pension while he was employed by the government. He terminated his benefits two or three months ago. As always, the member is misinformed. The former NDP leader is not receiving two incomes.
Second, the member is suggesting that military pensions or certain government pensions are actuarially sound. The big news for members of the Reform Party, to which I would ask them to listen very carefully, is that these defined benefit plans are not funded totally right now. They have massive unfunded liabilities.
Provincial-federal plans are short billions of dollars and additional revenues have to be pumped into them to meet the defined benefit aspect of the plan. As leaders of the country we should undertake to change our plan, make it a money purchase plan. From there we should go to the various departments and try to negotiate that with the various unions to ensure that the public sector is doing what the Saskatchewan public sector is doing.
I might add to the House leader that the Saskatchewan public sector has had a money purchase plan not since 1979 but since 1977. Even though it has had that plan since 1977-that is almost 20 years ago now-its defined benefit plan, which was well run over the years, is still about $2 billion unfunded in terms of future liability on the part prior to 1977. This is something that the Reform members should feel quite concerned about.
With respect to the last question that the member for Kindersley-Lloydminster asked, should people who are receiving public pensions serve in the House and receive an MP's salary in addition to that? I say not because that is the real double dipping.
You are getting a public pension and then serving the House of Commons and getting an MP's salary.
Members stand up in the House and say: "Let us cut this. Let us cut that. By the way, let us also cut low income people. Let us cut jobs. Let us cut medicare. Let us cut social services. Let us cut education. Let us cut everything because I am all right, Jack. I have a big income. I have a big pension". That is the message of the Reform Party.
Canadians see through this very thin argument which has no merit whatsoever. It is good rhetoric when no one else knows the facts. When people know the facts, I am sure they will make a decision with respect to whether the Reform's argument holds water.