I thought it was a very good line. I give accolades to the member for Macleod.
Apart from the puns, Bill C-85 has a very serious side. That is what concerns me. Bill C-85 is way out of step on several counts. I want to talk about those for a moment and the faulty premise on which this bill is built.
Two years ago when I was knocking on doors in my constituency, in Brooks, Taber and Medicine Hat-and Medicine Hat in particular because it is a retirement town-one of the topics which people talked about was that they were sick and tired of the MP pension plan.
They did not say: "We are sick of the aspect which says that taxpayers kick in $6 and MPs kick in one". They said: "We are sick of the double standard". They did not say that they wanted 3.5 times instead of 6 times what MPs kick in. They said: "We expect a pension plan like anybody else's, where if the employee puts in a dollar maybe the employer will contribute a dollar, but nothing richer than that".
I took that to heart. Members of the Reform Party took it to heart. However, the government has completely ignored it. It has come up with another form of padding its members' pockets at the expense of taxpayers. It is crazy. This bill is completely out to lunch when it comes to respecting the wishes of the taxpayers. We are here to serve the taxpayers, not to serve ourselves.
The hon. member for Kingston and the Islands is sitting over there scrambling to defend his trip to the trough. He is completely out of step with what Canadians are saying.
Another thing that Canadians mentioned to us is the huge debt. The debt at that time was $480 billion. It has now rocketed up to $550 billion. Surely members have some sympathy for the long-suffering taxpayer when they are considering the remuneration which they give themselves. However, no empathy was shown when the government proposed Bill C-85. It is another trip to the trough. It is a minor improvement over what the previous government gave to its members, but it is so far out of step that it defies logic. It defies description.
Medicine Hat to a large extent is a retirement town. In many cases its people exist on pensions. They find this debate absolutely unbelievable. The government will be talking this fall when the finance ministers convene about how to change the CPP to make it actuarially sound. The OECD says that the
retirement age will have to be pushed to age 79 to make it actuarially sound.
However, the government is proposing that we have pensions which are fully payable at age 55 with contributions from the taxpayer which are three and a half times what MPs have to put in. People find that absolutely unbelievable. I defy members across the way to come to my communities of Medicine Hat, Brooks, Taber, Bow Island, Tilley and all the other communities and justify this outrageous pension plan.
One subject which I wish to address is the whole idea of MPs' remuneration. It is well past the time when MPs should be allowed to set their own remuneration package. This bill does not deal with that. It completely ignores that. MPs and elected officials in other jurisdictions are about the only people in the country who are allowed to set their own wages and remuneration packages.
The president of General Motors or a teacher or a business person who owns a business cannot set his or her own wage. Business people are accountable to customers. They have to pay their suppliers. They can draw a wage based on all of that, but at the end of the day they have to depend on their customers and their employees before they can decide what kind of remuneration package they can have.
According to the government, MPs are above that. Bill C-85 makes no mention of it. It suggests that MPs should have a remuneration package which is based simply on the whims and caprices of the government. It has nothing to do with reality. It is an argument entirely in the abstract. The government has no perspective at all when it talks about the remuneration package or at least the member of Parliament pension plan. It is crazy.
One of the things that MPs are supposed to do is to talk to their constituents on a regular basis so they can find out where their constituents stand on these types of issues. It is a fundamental responsibility of a member of Parliament. However, none of that has been done when it comes to Bill C-85.
Instead, the government has decided to eschew the opinions of the public. It has said it does not want to hear from the public on this. It does not want to find out what the public thinks. What it wants to do is set up its own pension plan that is far richer than anything that is available in the private sector. If Canadians do not like it, that is tough luck because that is what the government will do.
When we knock on doors people are so cynical about politicians they will not listen to the first word we say about serious issues. All they believe we are doing is padding our own nest. I cannot argue against that. How can we argue against what the public is saying when it is absolutely true?
It is a well established tradition in this place and the government has done nothing to improve on it despite all of its promises in the red book. It has failed to restore integrity which is important and critical so people will respect and ultimately have faith in their government. This is a necessary step so that people will willing bring forward ideas for the important debates that need to occur so that the government enjoys the faith of the people. It is a very important aspect that the government has, I guess, intentionally ignored. It has pushed ahead with Bill C-85 and is actually now trying to invoke its own form of closure by not allowing a free and full debate.
The Reform Party has all kinds of concerns with this legislation. I want to touch on a fairly technical but still important part of it. The government has really tried, in my judgment, to deceive people by saying it is going to cut the contribution level down from 11 per cent to 9 per cent.
However, as my hon. friend from Fraser Valley West pointed out, there will not be enough money coming in. Reform MPs are opting out. I want to make it very clear that Reform MPs are opting out of this heinous plan. However, because of that the government is going to end up having to draw on more taxpayer dollars to make this thing fly. That is crazy.
The government has failed to consult with the people. It is padding its own pockets, padding its own nest, looking after itself and refusing to go to the people on an issue that is very important to them. It is an issue of integrity.