Debates of June 12th, 1995

Unemployment Insurance

[André Caron, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister. The federal government has shown yet again that it is proposing cuts mainly targeting Canada's jobless, who, for the second time, will be the targets of a reform proposal of this government.

Does the Prime Minister realize that, altogether, last year's unemployment insurance cuts of $5.5 billion and the $1.6 billion in cuts recently announced amount to a 25 per cent total cut in assistance to the most needy of our society, those who have to claim unemployment insurance benefits to survive?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to quote a report published by the Quebec Department of Fisheries, which is based on consultations made by the minister, Mr. Beaudry. It said that unemployment insurance is not well adapted to the realities of Quebec's fisheries and that it currently hinders progress and development in this sector to a great extent by halting private initiatives and stifling people's dynamic energy.

I hope that the Bloc members of this House will agree with the report published by the Government of Quebec, which calls for reforms to the unemployment insurance system.

[André Caron, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, will the minister confirm that the federal government is not planning to reform the unemployment insurance system by cutting forestry workers' benefits by 22 per cent and fishery workers' benefits by 33 per cent? Does he not feel that this would hit regional workers very hard and that, in fact, the two tier system that he said he did away with because it was discriminatory is again rearing its ugly head in in his new proposal?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, in the last budget we indicated that we were aiming at obtaining a 10 per cent saving in order to provide for reinvestment in employment programs and to provide for general stimulus to the economy. The ways and measures in which we will undertake that will be tabled in the House next fall when we have finished the kinds of discussions and examinations of the very extensive consultation that went on last October.

For the hon. member to be citing all kinds of facts and figures concerning what may happen or what could happen simply is not relevant as we have not yet made any decisions concerning the nature of the reform. We are busy and involved in undertaking a serious review of the consultations, talking to provincial groups and others. When we are ready to put forward the legislation the hon. member then will be in a position to react to reality, not simply to speculation.

Minister Of Canadian Heritage

[Jan Brown, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

Regarding the contracts for dollars dinner held for the Minister of Canadian Heritage, the Prime Minister stated that all the information is public. The Deputy Prime Minister stated that the Minister of Canadian Heritage would be happy to make public all the information.

Clients of the department were specifically targeted and invited to contribute. We are discovering, one name at a time, who contributed and what rewards the minister gave. The Liberal whip said the names of contributors have been tabled in the House and yet they have not.

Who is on the contributors' list that the Prime Minister is hiding from us? Who else has been rewarded with contracts, grants or appointments for contributing to the minister's debt retirement fund?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, again that is a completely false accusation. Every contribution to the Liberal Party, the Reform Party, the Bloc Quebecois or the Conservative Party, which is above $100, requires a receipt to be given to that person. This list is made public every year. Every contribution which is above $100 is published.

When I was in the House the other day the minister gave the list to her. She has not read it yet. If she needs more information we have a procedure. She can table her request in the House of Commons and if it is within the responsibility of the minister, the request will be met as soon as possible. We have nothing to hide because every contribution to the Liberal Party is known by anyone who wants to know.

[Jan Brown, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it seems that everyone in the country knows that the heritage minister should resign except the cabinet. Liberal backbenchers are saying that the contracts for dollars dinner was unethical and so are newspapers and Canadians across the country. The Friends of Canadian Broadcasting is asking for the minister's resignation. The Montreal Gazette , Le Droit , the Citizen , the Sun , La Presse and Le Journal de Montréal are all expressing similar sentiments.

With Canadians calling for the resignation of the Minister of Canadian Heritage, how can the Prime Minister keep on a minister who is awarding contracts to companies organizing fundraising dinners for him?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have answered the question. All the documents on this matter are public. Those who made contributions have been issued receipts, and their names will appear on the lists published. In any case, the names have already been given to the press and to journalists. Everyone knows who was at the dinner. There is nothing hidden, and so I have nothing to add.

Human Rights

[Maud Debien, Bloc, Laval East, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

We have learned on the eve of the G-7 Summit that Russian President Boris Yeltsin will be taking part in both political and economic discussions with the seven major industrialized nations-an indication that Russia is one step closer to membership in this exclusive group.

Given the many human rights violations in Chechnya and the attitude of the Russian President during the Prime Minister's visit to Russia last spring, what position does the Prime Minister intend to take on Russia's increased inclusion in the group of seven?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Yeltsin will not attend the G-7 meeting. He will participate in the political meeting of the G-8 on the second day. The two meetings are different. The first is the meeting of the western world's seven most industrialized nations; the second, on the following day, will be a political meeting of the group of eight. Mr. Yeltsin will participate in this meeting.

Economic discussions will be over. Mr. Yeltsin may choose to raise economic issues affecting Russia or other countries at the second meeting. I cannot stop him from raising the issues he wants. However, the G-7 economic summit will be over when we meet with Mr. Yeltsin.

[Maud Debien, Bloc, Laval East, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my supplementary question is as follows.

Since there will be a political meeting with Boris Yeltsin in attendance and in the light of the discussions there will be in this regard, does the Prime Minister intend to propose a joint statement by the heads of state to encourage Russia to respect human rights in Chechnya? In other words, does the Prime Minister intend to assume a leadership role among his colleagues with respect to human rights in Chechnya?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, when I met President Yeltsin in Moscow a few weeks ago, I raised the concerns of the government and people of Canada about his behaviour in Chechnya. I also intend, as the chairman of the meeting of the group of eight, to raise the matter again. I am sure many of the other leaders will raise the same problem, but I will take the initiative.

Pensions

[Stephen Harper, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is also for the Prime Minister.

The cost to taxpayers for individual MPs' expense allowances, travel expenses and salaries are available for voters' scrutiny in the Public Accounts of Canada, volume II, part II. However, the cost of individual MP pensions is not there. The information commissioner is being forced to take recourse to the courts just to obtain a list of MP pension beneficiaries.

Why is the government trying to hide how costly the MP pensions really are?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, the government is not trying to hide anything. It is trying to reduce the cost of MP pensions. Even though we have had suggestions to increase the size of the payroll of MPs coming from the very party that now asks the question, nevertheless we are proceeding on course to reduce by one-third the cost to taxpayers of MP pensions.

[Stephen Harper, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary question.

The House will notice that minister did not offer to reveal the real cost of MP pensions. We know that some Liberal members must opt out of the pension scheme in order to fulfil campaign promises made in the last election.

If the government will not commit to publishing the benefits of the MP pension plan, will the minister at least agree to publish a list of those members who opt in and those who opt out or is he trying to hide that information too?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, it will be up to each member of Parliament. Once the bill has been proclaimed, members will have 60 days in which to make a determination whether they want to be part of the plan.

If the member wants further information he has only to look at the public accounts to determine what goes into MP pensions. What is in MP pensions, what is contributed by the taxpayer, the government wants to reduce and that is part of its reform.

Job Creation

[Gilbert Fillion, Bloc, Chicoutimi, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

We are now witnessing a disturbing slowdown of the economy. The GDP has been falling for the last two months. On Friday, we learned that employment growth remains stalled. In fact, there has been no net job creation in the last six months.

Since some 23 per cent of the Quebec workforce is now unemployed, does the Minister of Human Resources Development not agree that the Liberal job creation policy is a dismal failure and a glaring example of inaction?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is saying it is a disaster but if he looks at the figures that his colleague who is asking questions about the G-7 tabled, we have the highest level of economic growth of any of the countries of the G-7.

The result over the past year has been over 430,000 new jobs in Canada. To call that a disaster seems to be turning logic on its head topsy-turvy. We are working hard to put in place an economic framework that will stimulate private jobs.

Eighty thousand jobs have been created in the private sector over the past month. That shows that the stimulus is in the right place and that is the course we are following.

In the meantime we will help those without jobs to get the kind of support and training they need to fit the new kind of economy we are moving into.

[Gilbert Fillion, Bloc, Chicoutimi, QC]

Mr. Speaker, despite the answer I just received, does the minister not realize that, as a result of this government's first 18 months in power, the unemployment rate in Quebec still hovers around 11 per cent, the employment level has not moved in six months, 50,000 more people are on welfare, and thousands of unemployed workers do not qualify for UI benefits?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, unfortunately, it must be said that the figures quoted by the hon. member and his colleagues are wrong and that, since October, the Canadian economy has created over 219,000 jobs in the private sector, 30,000 in the month of May alone.

True, there have been job losses in the public sector because governments want to save money so they can spend it on programs. It must be said that, while job creation over a six month period starting in October reached that level, more than 50,000 new jobs have been created in Quebec in the last 12 months, 111,000 since the election.

Income Tax

[Alex Shepherd, Liberal, Durham, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of National Revenue.

At this time of the year many single parents, mostly women, find themselves in debt to the government because they have to pay taxes on the receipt of support payments that have not been taxed during the year.

Would it not be appropriate for Revenue Canada to require tax deductions administered through the courts so that payments into custodial homes are received net of tax like forms of employment income? Would the minister not agree that this would go a long way to alleviating the April blues suffered by these families?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question and the concern he has for this important area of public policy which goes well beyond the tax area.

The hon. Minister of Justice has made it clear we are shortly to bring forward provisions with respect to maintenance and support and in relation to the Thibaudeau decision. These will soon be brought forward and I know that he among other members will be very interested in seeing them.

As for the department and the responsibility we have for collection for those who may have been concerned about the impact of the Thibaudeau decision, I assure him we will continue our normal practice of making sure the collections take place with sensitivity and with full understanding of the position individuals may find themselves in.

It is certainly not our intention to hassle single parents or to go after their last dime.

The Economy

[Herb Grubel, Reform, Capilano—Howe Sound, BC]

Mr. Speaker, when interest rates are high economic slowdown and recession are inevitable.

Statistics now show the inevitable has occurred. Economic growth in this quarter at an annual rate is essentially stagnating; there is no economic growth. The tragedy is these problems could have been avoided if the deficit was smaller and had produced lower interest rates.

Does the Minister of Finance admit Canada's economy and employment situation would be better today if spending cuts in the last two budgets had been greater and the elimination of the deficit had been put on a definite time frame?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of RegionalDevelopment-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member being an eminent economist in his own right knows full well the Canadian recovery was largely based on exports primarily to the United States.

The member knows as well the United States economy is going through a substantial slowdown and that as a result quite clearly our exports have been affected which is reflected in the Canadian economy.

He also knows we have made substantial deficit reduction cuts. We have taken substantial action in the last two budgets.

He also knows the problem is the deficit we inherited. I know deep down he is very proud of the actions of the Canadians government in cleaning up the nation's finances.

[Herb Grubel, Reform, Capilano—Howe Sound, BC]

Mr. Speaker, national income this year has been stagnant because exports are down. It is disturbing that housing starts are also down, car sales are down, manufacturing is down, retail sales are down and service industry output is down. The only things that are up are interest rates and taxes.

Will the Minister of Finance let the people know how he plans to get them out of the quagmire he created by his inadequate spending cuts in the past?