Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to speak on third reading of Bill C-87 on the prohibition of chemical weapons. It is a particular pleasure considering that Bill C-87 seems to be one of the few government bills that has not been slapped with time allocation by the government.
It is a sad indicator of the state of our democracy that our government feels there should not be free and open debate on all the bills of substance that come before the House. When the Liberals were in opposition they went insane every time the Mulroney government imposed closure, especially on controversial bills like C-68, C-41 and C-85. Unfortunately, now that they have formed the government their tune has changed. As the Liberals and BQ were voting for closure and silencing democratic debate, they were laughing and joking as if they were having a grand old time. This behaviour is reprehensible and I would not have believed it if I had not seen it with my own eyes.
The use of closure on these highly controversial bills was particularly ironic considering that the government was willing to spend as many days as necessary for debate on things like the $2 coin. If there really was a time problem in Parliament, then why would the government not limit debate on that sort of bill? If there was a time problem, then why did it not resume debate on the controversial bills months ago, rather than ramming them through in the last two weeks before the summer break? The answer is simple: Time is not the problem. The problem is that the government is putting forward flawed legislation and a free and open debate would expose this to everyone.
Does the government really think the people of Canada do not see what it is doing? Do the Liberals think that if they stifle debate Canadians will not notice they are lining their own pockets with the outrageous MP pensions? Does the government think citizens do not realize it is giving special status under the law to sexual orientation? Will gun owners not notice their legitimate rights are being trampled on? No, on all counts.
Even though there is a temptation to play the government's ridiculous game, the Reform Party does support the chemical weapons convention which Canada signed in 1993. We will support the bill which allows Canada to be among the first group of countries to implement the convention's terms of agreement.
As all members of the House know, the Canadian commitment to peace is second to none in the world. This country invented the concept of peacekeeping and we have given strong support to the UN for many decades. Because of our history, Canada has also strongly supported international agreements and regimes to limit the dangers of war. The bill we are dealing with today falls into this category.
The chemical weapons convention deals with a category of weapons that are a blight on the world. Since the use of these weapons is considered illegitimate by almost everyone, the chemical weapons convention is dealing with a virtually universal norm. When I say universal, we must remember that there are notable exceptions which serve to remind us exactly why Canada must support the chemical weapons convention.
Everyone here in this House will remember with horror the terrible scenes of Kurdish villagers gassed by Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein in the late 1980s. A reoccurrence of this truly evil act must be prevented in the future. By ratifying Bill C-87 Canada will be doing its part toward that end.
More recent events in Japan again reminded Canadians about the threats posed by lethal chemicals. In Japan we had the tragic circumstance where a fanatical cult was able to manufacture the deadly nerve gas sarin and then use it to poison hundreds of people in the subway system.
Once the signatories to the chemical weapons convention pass their own enabling legislation and the convention comes into force, hopefully this kind of tragedy will become preventable. With stricter controls of chemical warfare agents and their precursors, it seems unlikely that a group would be able to stockpile the kinds of chemicals hoarded by the Japanese cult leaders. Hopefully this would be detected and the appropriate officials could respond to head off trouble before it got out of hand.
Bill C-87 prohibits the production and use of chemical weapons and provides for the regulation of certain chemicals that can easily be turned into chemical weapons. Over the summer and early fall similar pieces of legislation will be prepared throughout the world and hopefully by late this fall the chemical weapons convention will officially come into force.
Currently the vast majority of countries have signed this convention and the Reform Party is quite hopeful that this worldwide effort will be a long term success.
With few countries outside the convention there will be significant pressure on signatories to adhere strictly to the convention's goals and provisions. Unfortunately the Middle East is one part of the world where several countries are refusing to join the convention. These Arab states argue that because Israel is unwilling to join the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, NPT, they cannot sign on to this convention. I do not agree. While I share the hope of these countries that the Government of Israel will consider joining the non-proliferation treaty, I also believe that this chemical weapons convention is serving the best interests of peace everywhere and it is a separate matter.
Both the chemical weapons convention and the non-proliferation treaty are agreements in the best interests of all the people and governments of the world. Therefore neither should be used as a bargaining chip by governments.
Too many times in this world countries abuse international instruments of peace and selfishly use them to their own advantage. The most ready example of this is the current situation in Bosnia with which we are all familiar. Let me review what has occurred in Bosnia to illustrate my point.
Canadian troops first went to Bosnia over two years ago, hoping they could provide assistance and humanitarian relief to the people there. They also tried to keep combatants apart and facilitate a negotiated peace for the region. Unfortunately these laudable goals were not backed up by a UN mandate that could get the job done. With no leadership from Ottawa, our peacekeepers have been left twisting in the wind.
The warring parties in Bosnia have manipulated and abused the peacekeepers who were sent there to help them. For example, we all know about the ridiculous hostage takings by the Bosnian Serbs. This has not happened once or twice but time and time again. It is an insult and an outrage to all Canadians.
However the problems go deeper than the abuses by the Bosnian Serbs. Let me quote from an article in the Toronto Star on June 9. It states: ``Canadian peacekeepers were dealt a double blow of life threatening harassment yesterday, not from the Bosnian Serbs but at the hands of the mainly Muslim Bosnian army. In one incident, in a trigger finger stand-off, the Bosnians pointed rocket propelled grenades, machine guns and pistols to prevent Canadians from reaching and retrieving a bulldozer stuck on a remote mountain road.''
A second article states that on May 22 Bosnian military police supported by Bosnian soldiers ambushed two Canadian UN armoured vehicles near Vares. The police demanded that the vehicles be opened, a right they do not have. Canadians refused. Suddenly a truck moved from behind a building and 15 heavily armed men hit the ground. The Bosnian bandits took radios, walkmans, personal items, smoke grenades and a number of fragmentation grenades.
These articles show clearly the kind of abuse I am talking about. The Canadian government and the international community must work hard to ensure that this kind of ridiculous and flagrant abuse will not occur in the future and will not occur with the enforcement of the chemical weapons convention.
Moving on to the substance of Bill C-87, the Reform Party supports this bill although we have a few concerns for which we would like assurances. First and foremost, Reform is concerned about the cost to the taxpayers and to Canadian industry. While we acknowledge that this bill has legitimate costs, according to our information the government does not yet know the price tag on Bill C-87.
We would like the government's assurances that it will spend the taxpayers' money with the utmost discretion and that it will present the actual costs associated with Bill C-87 to the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs once these become available.
Reform wants to ensure that the implementation of Bill C-87 will be as cost effective as possible. For example, the government must avoid the creation of a huge new bureaucracy to monitor and regulate the Canadian chemical industry.
Officials at Foreign Affairs have notified Reform that a full time staff of five as a "national authority" plus one additional staffer at foreign affairs might be needed. The Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs should be mandated to ensure that it does not go beyond this.
Since Reform has agreed to move this bill speedily through committee we would also like assurances that the government will use the inspection powers in Bill C-87 most judiciously and cautiously. Reform does not want to see a recurrence of the scope of inspection powers granted in Bill C-68. Provided we receive this assurance and the government ensures that inspectors will treat legitimate Canadian industry with all the respect it deserves, then we will be satisfied.
Most important, when it comes to the inspection of industry the government must take all reasonable steps to ensure their privacy. Industries subject to inspection must fully comply with the inspectors or be subject to either summary conviction or conviction on indictment.
Under the more serious category of an indictable offence persons would be subject to up to five years in prison and a $500,000 fine. In the face of these rather serious Criminal Code penalties business people will be compelled to comply with inspection requests even if they feel their legitimate rights to privacy are being violated.
Under paragraphs 14(1)(b) and (c), the inspectors can examine:
. . .any thing in the place being inspected; . . .make copies of any information contained in the records, files, papers or electronic information systems kept or used in relation to the place being inspected and to remove the copies from the place;
Although I know the intent of the legislation merely aims to fulfil the obligations of the convention, this wording could be interpreted more widely and Reform does not want to see this happen. Investigations could be used as fishing expeditions by the government to examine companies under a microscope. This would be totally unacceptable. The government must guarantee that all inspections are required to directly investigate whether companies are breaching the chemical weapons convention. Fishing expeditions should be specifically prohibited.
Under subclause 15(3) the bill states that search warrants would not be required, even if an inspector were refused entry to the premises, if there are "exigent circumstances". I would like to assume this clause is merely precautionary and is not intended for regular use. Under all circumstances except an extreme emergency, the government should obtain a search warrant where entry is refused. As we all know there are not many industries in Canada that currently make or use chemical weapons, so it seems very unlikely there will be any circumstances so pressing that a warrant cannot first be obtained before an inspection is conducted.
Moving to clause 20 of the bill we find the penalties for breaking the convention. I would like to hear from the government what exactly this clause means. It states:
Every person who contravenes any provision of this act is guilty of an offence and liable
It goes on about either an indictable or a summary conviction. I would like to know who would be subject to punishment in a large company where there was an offence committed. If a clerk made a reporting error through negligence would that employee be convicted? Would the owner? Would the board of directors? Would the clerk's supervisor? This must be cleared up. I would appreciate the government's comments on this.
Other than the aforementioned cautions and the suggestions for government, I have no doubt Canadians will support the intent of Bill C-87. Canada has always been a strong supporter of multilateral efforts to promote peace and restrict arms proliferation. This is especially true with respect to the prohibition of the use of chemical weapons. By asserting leadership in this area Canada is standing up for the extension of a rules based, multilateral system to defend our interests and promote common norms and values with like-minded countries.
In conclusion, Reform would like to give its strong support for this bill. I am glad the Liberals in this House are not imposing closure on C-87 as they seem to be doing with every other important bill that goes through this House.
Once Bill C-87 is passed we hope the government will make its implementation as pain free as possible for industry while still upholding Canada's commitment under the chemical weapons convention. If it does this I am sure all Canadians will for once be proud of something we have accomplished in this House.