Madam Speaker, this debate is not about money. So far all I have heard is about money and how much this will save the taxpayers. This debate is about integrity, and integrity means honesty.
The Reform Party of Canada is the only party in this House that says the pension plan is still too generous, notwithstanding the changes. It is four times better than the private sector, seven times better than any other public sector pension plan. Because of this and on principle, we are opting out. It would be hypocritical of us to accept it after having criticized it. We believe in what we are saying and we are prepared to act.
The Liberal government's feeble response has been Bill C-85, which effectively ends double dipping and raises the qualifying age for a pension to 55. It also increases the amount of time an MP has to serve to receive a maximum pension of 75 per cent-5 per cent better than the private sector-of the best six years of earnings. In 19 years MPs will now get 75 per cent of their salary in pension, rather than 15, as it was before, rather than the 35 to 40 years it takes anybody in this gallery, anybody who is not down at this level, to receive a pension plan. That is the difference, and that is why it is too lucrative.
The generous pensions MPs are paid are almost universally viewed as reasonable compensation for the fact that we do not pay members of Parliament enough in salaries. This is the Liberal government view, and this is the view that has resulted in two undesirable patterns in Canadian politics. First, it is difficult to attract top calibre candidates because the pay is not high enough. Forget about idealistic arguments that elected office is a higher calling and that people should be prepared to make sacrifices to serve. The reality is that they have mortgages to pay and families to feed too.
Second, big pensions at the end of the rainbow tend to make politicians acutely aware of the need to be re-elected. That generates more survival mode thinking and less commitment to tackle the tough issues and do what is right for constituents and the nation.
I would like to read a letter to the editor that I saw in the Financial Post written by an individual named Paul Arnold, from Victoria. This was on the heels of my comments during debate on this bill at second reading when I talked about how we should be looking at the whole remuneration package, not just the pension separately and justifying the high pension based on the low salary. This is ``Some straight talk on MPs' pensions'':
We should extend thanks to Reform Party MP Jim Silye for having the courage to expose the deceptive way in which MPs pay themselves with our tax dollars, and for opening the door to a long overdue public debate on this sensitive issue.
Professional politicians such as Jean Chrétien and Sheila Copps often grumble about how hard they work and how underpaid they are. Neither, however, likes to talk very much about their tax free expense accounts, their litany of perks and special privileges or, above all, their lucrative gold plated pension plan that in Copps's case will be worth millions of dollars.
Silye is simply saying that MPs should be compensated fairly for the work they do. They should receive a salary that is comparable to others in both the public and private sectors with similar workloads and responsibilities. Their salaries should be transparent and all hidden tax free expense accounts, perks, privileges and gold plated pensions should be eliminated entirely.
Most Canadians do not object to paying our elected officials well for doing what must be a very demanding and stressful job. They want MPs to plan for their own retirements by investing in RRSPs, just like the rest of us. What Canadians detest is the underhanded way that MPs feed at the public trough and the way the taxpayers keep retired MPs living in the lap of luxury for the rest of their lives.
There are 205 rookies in this Parliament. It is not their fault this pension plan and its method of distribution is in its current state. However, it disappoints me that the 205 rookies in this Parliament could have done something about it. I cannot believe the rookies on that side allowed 70 veteran MPs to walk away from this House and within 30 days of leaving they will start to receive their pensions. Why are they not ruled the same way? Why is it the class of '88 gets to opt out, our class gets to opt out, but future classes do not get to opt out? All future MPs should have the choice to opt out as well.
A transparent, taxable salary could replace the current compensation or remuneration of an MP. Here is this low salary that MPs receive that the President of the Treasury Board uses to justify this high goldplated pension plan. This is what he says is too low and why we need this pension plan. Here is what MPs receive: a taxable salary of $64,400; a tax free allowance of $21,300, which is equivalent to a pretax value of $42,600 if we make it transparent and taxable; the tax free travel status of $6,000. These are tax free benefits. In the private sector, of which I was a part two years ago, my company and I had to pay taxes on these benefits.
We in this House do not have to pay taxes on the following benefits: free VIA Rail pass; free personal long distance telephone calls; free health and dental package; free parking; free air travel for family; free insurance policy with spouse and dependent children; free second language lessons; a severance payment of $32,000 when defeated or retired; a re-entry allocation of $9,000 when defeated or retired.
On top of that is the lucrative, double standard, gold plated MP pension plan for a six-year member, worth between $500,000 and $4.5 million, depending upon the years of service, and valued at $28,000 per year by the independent consulting group Sobeco, Ernst & Young in February 1994.
This is why I believe MPs, notably the class of '88 and the class of '93 and all future classes, should have the right to opt out. A remuneration committee should be struck, with no MPs on the committee, and the mandate of the committee on behalf of all Canadians should be to set and establish a transparent taxable salary for MPs, which includes all expenses that can be receipted, and a pension plan of a certain amount that MPs will themselves look after.
The mistake I made when I gave a dollar figure of $150,000 was that that is self-serving. It is not my place and it should not be my place to set the amount. It should be done at arm's length by an independent body. There are some good groups out there that could do that. That is why I criticized the 205 rookies-or the 150 rookies, because Reform rookies are doing what they said they would do.
Let us fix it. The Liberals have an opportunity to fix it, and that would be the way to do it. We would get the public off the backs of MPs. We would restore integrity to politicians, because they would be paid a salary and benefits the Canadian public agrees with. They would not set it themselves; it would be set by an independent body. That would include the salary, benefits, and a pension plan that MPs could look after. That is how the problem could be solved, and we would not be yelling across the floor at each other about what is going on.
On an overall compensation and remuneration package, we have argued long and strong on this side of the House that the pension plan is far too generous. It has to be reduced and brought into line with the private sector. That is what Canadians and Reformers want. That is what Reformers are promising and that is why Reformers are opting out. We are putting our money where our mouths are.
We really believe that all members who do not opt out, those who had the opportunity to opt out, will be voted out, because they are treating themselves on a different level and on a different standard from the rest of Canadians. We are no better than the rest of Canadians. We are serving Canadians. If we
really want to serve Canadians, we should accept the amount that would be given by an independent board.
I think the MP pension plan should definitely be looked at and reviewed and brought into line with that of the private sector.