Mr. Speaker, I also wish to participate in this debate, and especially in the debate on the amendments put forward by the Reform Party in Motions Nos. 1 through 7. I must say that we agree with Motion No. 1, which provides that members of the next Parliament should be free to opt out of the plan.
We disagree with Motion No. 2, according to which a member who has not chosen one of the two plans is deemed to have opted out. We feel that all workers hope to receive a pension some day and want to deserve it.
Motion No. 4 is a big trap. We are a little taken aback to see that a democratically elected political party can dismiss the relevance of another existing political party and seek to punish the democratically elected members of a recognized political party for defending ideas.
Motion No. 4 would deny pensions to members who renounce their Canadian citizenship. This is obviously a direct attack against the Bloc Quebecois. The Reform Party must have reasoned that if Quebec ever achieves sovereignty, Bloc members will no longer be Canadian citizens and will therefore no longer qualify for the MPs' pension plan.
I strongly denounce this kind of amendment to a bill. The Reform Party must be seriously misinformed to issue such a statement. May I remind you that, in Canadian history, we are what is called a sovereignist party, a party that hopes to make Quebec a distinct country enjoying a very friendly relation with the rest of Canada as well as economic ties that are as close as they are today.
Let us keep in mind that Quebec is Canada's second trading partner after the U.S. As for Ontario, trade between the two provinces exceeds $68 billion, and more than 100,000 Ontario jobs depend on trade with Quebec.
We are very pleased with the services and economic agreements that we have with the rest of Canada. These arrangements reflect our concept of sovereignty, which is the recognition of the two founding nations, based on the existence of two strong governments which have economic ties.
I want to remind the Reform Party that, when it tables an amendment challenging the legitimacy of the Bloc's presence in this House, it is completely out of line with the history of this country, the Charter of rights and freedoms, and the Constitution. Let us not forget that, when the first Canadian government was elected, out of the 17 members representing Nova Scotia, 16 or 17-I believe it was 17-were sovereignists who wanted their province out of Confederation.
After four or eight years in Parliament, were these members subjected to punitive measures, on the grounds that they had a vision of Nova Scotia's future which differed from that of the rest of the country? Of course not. If the Western Party-I believe it is the correct name-, which was in favour of pulling the west out to annex it to the U.S. or create a new country, had managed to get 30 or so democratically elected members here, would we have tabled motions saying that these people, even though they were democratically elected, have no right to sit here and should be punished by not getting any pension once they leave? That would be totally absurd.
Some communist members also sat in this House. Were they told that, because they were communists, they would not be eligible for a pension later on? Would an extreme right wing government, which could be a Reform government, tell NDP members that, since they represent the extreme left, they will be punished by not getting their pensions? Are we here to discuss ideas or make arbitrary and dictatorial judgments?
In that sense, clause 4 is in total contradiction with the democratic process which Quebec and Canada are proud to share. That process provides that the people can choose its representatives among the various political parties and decide to elect Bloc members if it wishes to do so. However, will these Bloc members later be punished by being deprived of their rights because of the ideas that they defend? This is unacceptable. The left would not do that to the right, nor would the right do it to the left.
I also want to make it clear to Reform members that the fact that we are sovereignists does not mean that we want to break up Canada. That was never our intention. Sovereignists want to build a new relationship with Canada based on the two founding peoples. This would entail a very strong, central government in Quebec, a very strong, central government in Ottawa, and economic links between the two. However, Quebecers would pay their taxes to Quebec only and Quebec and Canada would only jointly buy the services that are deemed necessary to have in common.
For example, you may want to have a Senate, but we Quebecers may not, so you can have it and pay for it yourselves. If we both decide we want to maintain the St. Lawrence Seaway, we can do so together. If we decided to share an army, we could work out arrangements. The expression "based on the two founding peoples" simply means that. Currently, approximately 50 per cent of all people in Quebec-we had 49 per cent of the vote-share the Bloc's vision and the other 50 per cent have a different vision. Some people are still undecided, but a good 40 per cent of all people still share the vision that Quebecers can have everything they ever wanted within the federal system.
Therefore, we have two options. There is nothing wrong with being a sovereignist, it is not a punishable offence, it is not a terrorist movement or a movement bent on ruining things; it is a movement, a political party with a philosophy and a vision for the future of Quebec and if its vision prevails, even better. However, there is still another vision in Quebec, the vision of federalism. It is therefore a debate on the issues based on mutual respect which people must choose. It must be up to the people to decide.
And if the people choose sovereignty in the referendum, Bloc members, who worked here in Ottawa to bring sovereignty to pass, should under no circumstances be denied certain services or compensation for the years in which they democratically held seats and defended their vision against others. And if their vision prevails, they should not be penalized for having served Quebec, and indirectly Canada because I think that Canada would be in much better shape if we were two separate countries. They should in no way be penalized regarding their pension plans or other plans for having had this vision.
It is quite regrettable that a recently elected party which calls itself democratic, the Reform Party, would dare to table a motion of the kind. It is unworthy of a democratic party. It is an attack on the very act of democracy and the faith in it that all Canadians and Quebecers have. It is an insult to our Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It is an insult to our Constitution.
It is also an insult to western democracy to have to say in a motion that people are judged by their ideas and that their rights will be adjusted accordingly. No democracy can tolerate this. That is the kind of thing we would expect from dictatorships from the extreme right or extreme left and it has no place, it seems to me, in this noble assembly, the House of Commons, which has always been preoccupied with respecting democracy and above all respecting the hon. members who were mandated by their own electorate to sit in the House.
I think that clause 4 should be voted down or even dropped before the vote.