Mr. Speaker, I remind those in the House and Canadians who are listening that the government promised to ensure there was an age of eligibility, which has been done. Before this legislation came forward members could collect a pension at any age after six years of service. Now there is an age of eligibility. The government also promised to eliminate double dipping. This has been done.
The government honoured its promises and went further. It ensured the contributions of taxpayers to the MP pension plan would be reduced by over 33 per cent. It ensured the accrual rate, the rate by which credits are accumulated for pensions, would be reduced by 5 per cent to 4 per cent, a reduction of 20 per cent. At the request of the Reform Party it granted this legislation which will permit members to opt out of the MP pension plan. The government has honoured its first two promises and has gone beyond with three other initiatives.
I am amazed at the boldness of my Reform colleague who has just spoken. He used the terms trough regular and trough light, which his leader so effectively used to try to denigrate what was happening. He ought to be referred to as the MP who introduced trough heavy duty. On May 4 he suggested MPs should be paid $150,000 a year and get regular pensions. If that were to happen it would cost the Canadian taxpayer a lot more. Trough heavy duty has been suggested by the member who had the gall to stand up in the House and try to pretend he would fix things. I am really amazed.
The hon. member quoted testimony. I am surprised he did not quote testimony from C.E.S. Franks, a witness when we examined the bill:
If MPs pensions are looked at solely in comparison with the pensions and pension schemes of other professionals, then the pensions of parliamentarians seem excessive. And that is the comparison normally made.
When these proposals for reform of the pensions of members of Parliament were first made public the media was filled with reports comparing the pension an MP would make after fifteen or twenty years of service with what a school teacher or civil servant would receive after the same period.
Not surprisingly, by comparison the MPs' pensions looked very advantageous. What these reports and experts failed to note is that less than ten per cent of MPs serve in the House for fifteen years or more, and that, after most elections (1993 was an exception) the majority of ex-MPs have served too short a time, less than the required six years, to receive any parliamentary pension whatsoever. In fact, a great many ex-members not only do not have a pension but have a difficult time in finding employment and in re-establishing themselves after serving as a member.
If my colleague is to be selective, I assure the House I will bring some balance into the debate.
I agree the MP pension plan is generous. I will not deny that. However, we must look at it in the total context. If we look at the international scene, France, England, Germany and any number of others, and if we look at the major components such as eligibility, the amount contributed by government, the age a person can collect a pension, number of years of service, et cetera, some countries have provisions equal to or better than
the provisions we have in this plan as it stood and even more so today because of the changes the government has brought about.
If we look at provincial and territorial standards we find the same thing. In other words, in certain provinces one works less than six years. In certain provinces one can collect a pension before age 55. I could go on but I will not. The point is we have to look at it within the total context, which my colleague and his colleagues will obviously refuse to do.
These motions are unacceptable to us for any number of reasons, some which I have mentioned, some which I find extremely misleading, some which do not deal with the topic whatsoever. I am shocked and disappointed it was done so early in the debate.
There is a commitment to allow optional participation for this Parliament only. That was at the request of the Reform Party. The bill extends optional coverage to persons not vested six years so that small amounts of money from the previous Parliament would not remain in the account until a member retires.
Members with more than six years on October 25, 1993 are able to opt out for this Parliament and return their pension as a gift for the crown if they do not want to receive it when they leave office. The deeming provision protects survivor benefits if necessary for members who die before opting in. The requirement to be a Canadian citizen ignores the fact that a pension is deferred compensation for which members have contributed.
For all of the above reasons obviously we cannot be supportive.