Debates of Sept. 26th, 1995

Health Care

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Canada Health Act is very specific. The provinces must pay for all medically necessary services. To have this changed, the Canada Health Act would need to be modified. Is the minister finally listening?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I have always listened and listened very carefully.

However there is a difference between listening and doing things which would destroy something very good. Medicare was built in this country one step at a time. Some might even say one two-by-four at a time.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Some of us are builders and some of us seek to destroy. The government will seek to continue to build.

Unemployment Insurance

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

By once again limiting the access of the thousands of unemployed to unemployment insurance, the minister's proposals will result in more unemployed being pushed toward welfare. The cuts he has made to unemployment insurance since 1994 have forced 5,000 Quebec families to seek social assistance.

Will the minister acknowledge that the new proposals for cuts to unemployment insurance analyzed by the Canadian Labour Congress will heighten the move of thousands of unemployed from unemployment insurance to welfare? Is that what awaits Quebec workers the day after a no vote?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I think it has already been made clear that I do not think very much of this document of the Canadian Labour Congress. It is simply not based on any proper or realistic analysis.

We have not decided yet exactly what the elements of our proposal will be, so how they can go about speculating on what the impacts will be is beyond me. I guess you need to be an economist for the CLC to figure that out.

I want to make one point very clear to the hon. member about the impacts. In the month of August, for which we have the most recent statistics, we know that the welfare caseload in Quebec dropped by 13,000. One of the reasons is because we are making real headway in getting people back to work. There were over 110,000 new jobs created in Quebec during that period of time.

We still say that the best way to deal with poverty and the best way to deal with unemployment is to help people get a job.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, let us set the record straight about the number of people on welfare in Quebec. Statistics provided by the Quebec department of income security reveal that, in July 1995, there were 799,900 people on welfare; in August 1995, the figure was 799,400, 500 fewer; and, in September 1995, there were 800,100 people on welfare in Quebec. So either the minister does not know how to count or he spends his time inventing figures.

The Prime Minister, who always has the word honesty on the tip of his tongue, should ask his minister to make use of this virtue in tabling his famous document. What is preventing the minister from acting honestly and openly?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

I know this might be a little delicate for the hon. member, but if he is asking about the source of the figures I would simply like to confirm that on April 27 the prime minister of Quebec, the Hon. Jacques Parizeau, said that between April of 1994 and April 1995 the number of social assistance recipients in the province of Quebec declined by 60,000.

If he wants to call into question the figures put forward by the prime minister of Quebec, certainly he is simply following in the footsteps of his leader, who seems to be always second guessing the prime minister of Quebec.

Moody's

[Raymond Bonin, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

Moody's has indicated that the credit ratings of Quebec and the other provinces should be reviewed in the event of a yes vote. What does the government think of Moody's analysis?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, Moody's indicates that, in the event of a yes vote, the credit ratings of Quebec and the other provinces should be reviewed, suggesting that the cost of credit would increase in Quebec and across Canada.

The conclusion is that the best way for Quebec to have a better credit rating and therefore lower interest rates is for it to remain in Canada.

Parole And Sentencing

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is clear that Melanie Carpenter was viciously raped and murdered by a violent offender released by way of statutory requirement after serving only two-thirds of his sentence. This means that government legislation contributed to her death.

Will the Minister of Justice introduce legislation to amend the law that allows criminals to be released after serving only two-thirds of their sentence, as was the case in the Melanie Carpenter situation?

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, legislation has been introduced in the House that deals with violent offenders and with sentencing, and that is Bill C-45. The bill will be debated at third reading tomorrow. I invite the hon. member to be here to vote for the bill.

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, of course that was no answer to my question.

The Canadian Police Association has said that crime prevention includes the reduction of opportunities to commit crimes. It has also said that easy parole requirements provide violent offenders a golden opportunity to reoffend.

Will the Minister of Justice amend the law to allow for the assessment of violent offenders prior to release to determine their likelihood of reoffending and allow them to be declared a dangerous offender at the end of their sentence rather than at the beginning, as is the case now?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, there is not a Canadian who was not touched and indeed angered by the tragic death of Melanie Carpenter and by the other tragic deaths in recent months.

I met this morning with Melanie Carpenter's father. I had the opportunity to speak directly to him to express my own anger and as a parent of young children to identify with the sorrow he feels.

This government has been working steadily in its term in office to strengthen the criminal justice system, to introduce DNA testing, to strengthen the Young Offenders Act, and to provide mandatory penitentiary terms for those using guns in the commission of a crime.

When we introduced Bill C-41, which would encourage uniform sentences in criminal courts in Canada and send the message that violent crime must be punished harshly, the Reform Party voted against it.

Let me simply say that if the hon. member and the members of his party were genuinely interested in public safety instead of exploiting personal tragedy for political gain in the short term, they would work with us on the changes we intend, including changes to deal with the high risk offenders in this country.

Old Age Security

[Maurice Dumas, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

In his recent budget, the Minister of Finance clearly announced old age pension reform, and I quote: "That in turn requires reform to ensure that the pension system is sustainable in the long term". Yesterday, the Minister of Foreign Affairs clearly contradicted his colleague by saying that Ottawa would definitely not touch old age pensions.

In view of this flagrant contradiction by two senior ministers in his cabinet, would the Prime Minister confirm clearly that the old age pension reform is ready but will be put off until after the referendum so seniors will not know the scope of the cuts that await them?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, we made it very clear in the budget statement that the government will do nothing to jeopardize the security of our seniors who are on public pension plans.

What we did say was that in order to maintain the sustainability of the Canada pension plan there has to be a review. As the hon. member knows, there are substantial changes going on in the demographics of this country. The CPP does not apply to Quebec, but it has a relationship because the two pension plans have a certain compatibility. We do want to have a public review before the Minister of Finance meets with his provincial colleagues by the end of the year. That is one reason it is very important that we be able to get out for public view how the Canada pension plan itself

can be revised and amended to ensure it maintains its sustainability.

[Maurice Dumas, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, how can the minister contend that his government will not touch old age pensions, as the Minister of Foreign Affairs said yesterday, when this same minister refused to make any commitment on the amounts of the old age pensions and the eligibility level, leaving it up to his colleague in finance to do so, when the budget has clearly stated there will be a reform and cuts?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to point out that reform is going on constantly.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

May I amend that to say that modernization is going on constantly? It is terrible how we have debased the currency of the word "reform".

I want to point out to the hon. member that we have brought in legislation in the past in the House that makes it substantially easier for pensioners to get their pensions without reapplying. We have changed the delivery system so they can now get half-day service when service used to take 13 or 14 days previously. All along we have been making very significant and important changes for seniors. I announced just today that based on the quarterly review we have increased the seniors pension by $2.35 beginning today.

Victims Of Crime

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, last night Canadians from coast to coast saw quite clearly how much the government cares for the victims of crime. This minister and his government had a chance to vote for financial compensation to assist victims and their families to recover from the trauma of violence and sexual assault, but did not.

My question is for the justice minister. How can the minister tell Canadians he supports efforts to benefit the victims of crime when the minister and his government refuse to back up their words with actions?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

My colleagues, the question as it is framed I find to be acceptable. I will permit the minister to answer if he so wishes.

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, let me just say that had the hon. member been aware of the provisions of Bill C-41 before speaking and voting against it, he would have seen-

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay East, BC]

We are talking about C-45.