Mr. Speaker, I would like to follow up on the question raised and the answer given by the hon. member.
First, people are not in federal penitentiaries for non-payment of fines. It is important for people to fundamentally understand that and not to allow the red herring being thrown out by the Reform Party to confuse the issue.
Second, the member mentioned that he worked in the justice system with young offenders and adults for seven years. I have worked in that system and I also worked with young offenders, adults, victims and victims' groups for 20 years. The hon. member's example of not incarcerating people for their inability to pay fines was addressed in Bill C-41.
That is something the hon. member with his colleagues voted against. We on this side and the government supported it. It is important for people to understand that there is the option now where somebody does not get incarcerated because they are unable to pay a fine. If they refuse to do the alternative, then they get incarcerated. That is a correction which was made to the sentencing process and which was long overdue.
The member for Wild Rose, a member of the party who promised to do things differently, calls that socialism. I am amazed at the shallowness of the member's understanding on this very complicated issue.
There is a very important point to be made. I wish my colleague from the islands would put his mind to it that prisons are very expensive, federal penitentiaries being even more expensive.
Surely the people in prison should be relegated there because they are a danger to the community and are not able to follow the conditions of their probation or parole for other crimes. Surely the member would agree that prisons should be reserved first and foremost for the small numbers who are a threat to public safety and second for those people who are given alternative options, say, for a property offence and not making restitution, not following the probation order then of course one cannot do much else but enforce the law that way.