Mr. Speaker, my colleague may certainly raise a point of order, as for me, I will try to land on my feet.
I was saying that, with such a mellifluous title, this government is proving to be a master of illusion and deception, for it is presenting a harmless looking bill to rectify a problem. Remedial and disciplinary measures must be taken in relation to members of administrative tribunals. Nobody could argue with that. We have seen that in other areas, where the government tried to make us believe it had plugged the loophole of family trusts by taking energetic and quick measures, nothing had been plugged at all.
So, at first sight, without the serious and in-depth study that the Bloc members have done, one might think this bill was a good one and wonder why we are opposing it.
Well, I will tell you what we have against it. In the few minutes I have left, I will try to demonstrate that this bill will perpetuate the principle of patronage appointment of political friends. I explain: this bill brings major changes into the working of administrative tribunals.
But first, let us ask ourselves: what is an administrative tribunal? The Dictionnaire de droit québécois et canadien defines administrative tribunal as a body, in principle autonomous and independent from the government, to which the government has given the power to settle disputes between itself and the citizens.
I stress the words "in principle autonomous and independent from the government". Let us remember these words and keep them in a little file somewhere in our memory; I will get back to this point in my remarks. Let us see if this bill corresponds to the definition of maintaining autonomous bodies, independent from government.
At the outset-I wanted to do it and I nearly forgot to do it-I gave the legal definition of the term administrative tribunal, but what does that mean in the real world? It represents a level of authority where ordinary citizens can be heard before judges or commissioners with some degree of independence and the confidence that his or her point of view will be heard.
Why is the ordinary citizen asking to be heard? Because he or she feels himself or herself the victim of injustice from the machinery of government, and we know how complicated it can get. All hon. members certainly have had constituents come to their riding offices on a Friday or a Monday and tell them: "It is just unbelievable. I have been had by the system. This interpretation of the legislation is wrong. The official was unfair to me because he does not like me".
I do not want to make any blanket statement about public officials, because they are human beings, after all. They may not feel too good certain days and dislike anybody stepping on their toes. They may make a restrictive interpretation of the legislation. That is what is so marvellous with human beings. Sometimes they feel fine and sometimes they feel bad.
A private citizen who thinks he has been unfairly treated can appeal to the relevant administrative tribunal. This bill gives a list of such administrative tribunals. Let me name a few just so we can see what kind of issues in our daily lives federal administrative tribunals can deal with.
There is the Canadian Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board, the RCMP External Review Committee, the Canadian Grain Commission, the Immigration and Refugee Board, the RCMP Public Complaints Commission, and the Public Service Staff Relations Board. This board is for public servants who feel they have been treated unfairly by their immediate supervisor. They can take their case to the Public Service Staff Relations Board. They hope their case will dealt with according to the basic rules of natural justice.
There are also the Copyright Board, the National Parole Board, and so on. This is just to give you an idea of what an administrative tribunal is all about in federal law.
This debate has been going on in Quebec for more than 25 years, and many reports and studies have been tabled in the National Assembly. I would like to take this opportunity to praise the splendid work of Quebec justice minister Paul Bégin in his reform of administrative tribunals. I know the justice department in Quebec is working very hard on this, and some good points should come out of this endeavour.
But what we are discussing here is very important: the independence and impartiality of judges of administrative tribunals. The fundamental problem resulting from the political appointment of administrative tribunal judges could have remedied by Bill C-49. We have to admit that, once again, the Liberal majority-and a majority government is a fine democratic institution-decided in this case to bury its head in the sand.
And that, at a time when people are so suspicious about politicians. I remind the House of a poll published last year in the magazine L'Actualité , which said that only 4 per cent of the people still trusted the politicians. When people follow the debates or come here for question period, they can see that we do not deserve more than 4 per cent support, given the abuse, insults and invective hurled about in this place, when it is not expressions of love.
We, Quebecers, remember that people from the rest of Canada came to see us last year to say how much they loved us. We appreciate such demonstrations. This is overwhelming love. It hurts us, but we love to be loved.
The President of the Treasury Board should have done the honourable thing and made a courageous stand by dealing squarely with the issue of the political appointment of administrative tribunal members. On the contrary, he is leaving even more room for party politics, by increasing the power politicians have over the administrative tribunals. How can we trust an administrative tribunal when we know that its members were appointed by the government party, whatever its political stripes?
We, the members of the Bloc Quebecois, will be repeating in the 1997 election what we said in the 1993 election, that is: "Liberal or Conservative, it is six of one and half a dozen of the other. They are are all alike. Pop them all in a hat, then pull them out one by one, and they are are just the same". During the nine years of the Mulroney government, partisan appointments were legion. Since
1993, the current government has been making partisan appointments.
I am convinced that, later, if my Liberal colleagues ask me good questions, I will be able to refer to the list published in The Hill Times of last week, and it appears that we will have the second part in this week's edition, with respect to appointments. These were compiled by the Hon. Senator Marjory LeBreton.
In this bill, there were two changes of particular interest to us. First, there is the issue of new disciplinary measures. Once again, we are not against what is good, we agree. All depends on the way the issue is approached.
Clause 3 of the Bill provides for a new mechanism for the removal from office of a member of an administrative tribunal appointed by the Governor in Council. Following certain procedures, the Governor in Council will be able to remove a member from office with reason. The Chairperson of the tribunal will be able to set the process in motion by asking the minister if the member should be subject to remedial or disciplinary measures. This is the meaning of clause 5.
The Chairperson will then invoke one of the four following reasons: the member has become incapacitated, has been guilty of misconduct-