Debates of Nov. 22nd, 1996

Aboriginal Peoples

[Garry Breitkreuz, Reform, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Mr. Speaker, back in 1969, when the present Prime Minister was the minister of Indian affairs, the Liberals had a policy based on the fundamental principle of equality. I quote: "Non-discriminatory participation of Indian people in Canadian society." If they had stayed on

the equality track maybe there would have been no Oka, no Gustafsen Lake and no Ipperwash.

When will the minister repeal the Indian Act which divides us on the basis of race and replace it with new legislation based on the principles of equality, democracy and accountability; principles that would give individual Indian people real choices about what they want done with their land and their treaty entitlements?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, we are looking at the Indian Act now. We will be looking at 18 sections in which the minister has power that will be transferred to aboriginal people.

We will be looking at sections pertaining to western Canada which say that they cannot sell their grain unless I approve it. In western Canada they cannot sell their pork unless I approve it.

That will be in the House probably in the first week of December. From what this member said today, I expect him to be on his feet supporting those amendments.

Air Transportation

[René Laurin, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Transport.

Day in and day out, the federal government contradicts itself about Canadian Airlines. Last Friday, representatives of the company and the federal government said that Ottawa would intervene to save Canadian if employees would agree to a salary reduction. On Monday, in response to questions from the Bloc Quebecois, the government denied its intention to intervene. On Tuesday, the Minister of Transport told the unions that Ottawa would intervene if Canadian and its employees failed to reach an agreement. On Wednesday, the Prime Minister reiterated his government's intention not to intervene.

Could the minister decide which it is finally and be clear about his government's intentions to help Canadian International?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, there is no contradiction, except in the mind of the hon. member.

The situation is straightforward. This is the restructuring of a private company. It requires the employees to take part. It requires suppliers to take part. It requires American Airlines' parent company, AMR, to take part and it requires substantial change to change it from a company in the red, a company which is losing money, to a profitable company which is in the black.

That cannot be done by the government. It cannot be done by the injection of government money. It requires restructuring. That is the government's straightforward position and it has been the same from the beginning of the problem.

[René Laurin, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister has yet to make a decision.

Will the minister acknowledge at least that any federal intervention in the Canadian affair must be governed by three conditions: the first, that it not inject new public funds; the second, that it prevent American control over part of the industry; and third, that it save as many jobs as possible?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, we have received no requests from the company to intervene. That is where the Bloc has been in error frequently in its questioning. We have not been requested to intervene.

Now what might happen in the future and the speculative nature of the member's questions are impossible for me to answer under the rules of the House.

The Constitution

[Margaret Bridgman, Reform, Surrey North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the report on the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples notes: "The Constitution allows federal and provincial governments to use the notwithstanding clause to step outside of the charter in certain circumstances". The report goes on: "Recognized aboriginal government should also be free to exercise this option".

Will the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development assure all Canadians their fundamental rights and freedoms are protected from any government invoking the notwithstanding clause to deny those rights, including equality and property rights?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, this is a problem. The notwithstanding clause applies to the provinces. It is supported by most members of the Reform Party in a former life, and I see that some of them are going back to it. They want that clause in there.

The royal commission has highlighted that there is no provision in the charter in relation to self-government, no constitutional change to give the same rights to aboriginal people. But the hon. member is accurate, it is there, a dichotomy that is going to have to be dealt with by constitutional change at some point.

[Margaret Bridgman, Reform, Surrey North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, aboriginal women are concerned about their right of individual equality under aboriginal self-government.

What guarantees can the minister offer aboriginal women that their right of individual equality is not endangered by self-government?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is referring back to the charter of rights. It was always the position of the Liberal government under former Prime Minister Trudeau that this should be entrenched, that there should not be a notwithstanding clause. It is there only because it was forced on us by the premiers and by the Conservative governments of the time.

I hope that at some point we can take the notwithstanding clause out of the Constitution so that the charter of rights is free standing both for aboriginal people and non-aboriginal people.

Air Transportation

[Stéphan Tremblay, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the industry minister.

On Monday, in response to a suggestion by the Bloc Quebecois to merge Canadian International and Air Canada, the industry minister stated that it would be an insult for western Canada. However, the fact of Canada having a single international air carrier is not insulting, either for the West or for Quebec. It is clear that the minister's statement was only intended to exacerbate tensions between Quebec and western Canada.

Does the minister realize that the only fair and lasting solution to the problems facing the airline industry in Canada is the one put forward by the Bloc Quebecois, namely to create one single international airline as is the case for instance in France, England and Germany?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, government policy with respect to air travel is to try to encourage competition so that the Canadian consumer can receive the benefit of lower fares and more frequent flights.

We do not have before us a serious proposal from anyone, including the Bloc, to merge the two airlines. What we have instead is a situation where one of the two major airlines in Canada is facing restructuring so that it can occupy a more profitable niche of the air travel market and where it can be turned from a company that has been losing substantial amounts of money into a company that is profitable.

I should remind the hon. member that Air Canada too over the last 10 years has lost substantial amounts of money, approximately $600 million.

[Stéphan Tremblay, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question was addressed to the industry minister. I would have liked him to elaborate on the comments he made on Monday when he seemed to be pitting the west against Quebec. Therefore, I redirect my question to the minister regarding what he said on Monday.

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, I really can add little to the reply that I made earlier, other than to remind the hon. member, who is new to the House, that questions are addressed to the government as a whole and while an individual member may address a question to an individual minister, it is the government that responds, and any government member can reply to such a question.

Tobacco

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the health minister claims to have new evidence to support effective and enforceable anti-tobacco legislation. We have said that Reform will support such legislation on the basis of the new evidence.

While young Canadians become addicted, the health minister fights with the finance minister over tax provisions in the proposed legislation.

When will the finance minister quit the internal warfare and give the health minister a green light on taxes so we can have warfare on addiction instead of warfare in cabinet?

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the member is off base on this.

The health minister has prepared legislation in response to a blueprint document that has been in the public domain for a whole year. There have been 3,000 plus responses, written and otherwise, and the legislation is being prepared on the basis of the consultations that have taken place. It will come in due course.

The hon. member already knows that we have indicated it will be here and it will be here soon.

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the parliamentary secretary in answering for the finance minister has not given us the background to this. It is very clear that there is infighting and even with Reform Party help we cannot see that this legislation is actually going to get through the House in time. Meanwhile, hundreds, if not thousands of teenagers are becoming addicted to cigarettes.

When will the Liberals shut down their leadership race, get the health minister and finance minister on side so we can save Canadians lives?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, it is really unfortunate that the Reform Party and this member in particular, for whom I have some respect, is incapable of dealing with an issue of major importance to Canadians and give it the seriousness that it requires.

The hon. member knows full well that at the time the tobacco taxes were lowered, the Prime Minister, the then Minister of Health and myself said that we were going to monitor the situation closely with the provinces; that it was our intention to see the taxes rise as soon as it could be done and to the extent that it could be done without triggering further contraband; and that we would be guided in those discussions between the provinces and ourselves and in our discussions with the Solicitor General of Canada and the Mounties.

The member knows that full well. That is the government's intention. It has been stated on a number of occasions. The member also knows that the Minister of Health and the parliamentary secretary have again confirmed that the government is prepared to come forth with its package, which it will do.

The hon. member continues to stand up in this House and ask questions when the Minister of Health has stated very clearly that he will do it in his own good time. He knows the government will make an announcement when it is ready to make an announcement. It makes no sense for the hon. member to take the time of this House instead of debating the issue as fundamentally and seriously as it should be treated.

Lucy Maud Montgomery Ferry

[Yvan Bernier, Bloc, Gaspé, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the transport minister.

The Bloc Quebecois has just received copy of a 1992 report produced for Transport Canada showing that there are so many flaws in the ferry running from Magdalen Islands to the mainland, the Lucy Maud Montgomery , that it would cost close to $12 million to refit that ship which could otherwise be the cause of some major incident, and even the loss of lives. This morning local stakeholders informed us that, since 1992, only $4 million have been invested in the refitting of the ferry.

Does the minister intend to publish the coast guard report on the safety of the Lucy Maud Montgomery and does he intend to go ahead with the plans for replacing that ferry, in accordance with what was asked by the round table on transportation for the Magdalen Islands in a letter sent to the Prime Minister and of which he received copy yesterday?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, unfortunately yesterday I was in western Canada and I did not receive a copy of the letter to which the hon. member has made reference. I will certainly look at it and when I have the details I will provide him with a response to his inquiry.

[Yvan Bernier, Bloc, Gaspé, QC]

Mr. Speaker, while the minister is looking into the matter, let me remind him that the people of the Magdalen Islands have been waiting since 1994.

While he is thinking about the problem, since he has the required funds, what is the transport minister waiting for to approve the purchase of a ship, as requested by all the stakeholders on the islands?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member must know that he injects into the preamble to his question references to documents which I do not have in front of me and do not have the details of. He simply cannot expect a responsible answer from any minister unless we have examined the document.

If their questions were precise in terms of issues instead of being filled with preambles which refer to so many other things, it might be a little easier for us to reply in the House in a direct manner to a direct question.

Citizenship And Immigration

[John Loney, Liberal, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration. This week there have been many comments in the media concerning the community of Vegreville and a report commissioned by the minister's department. What exactly was the purpose of this report and what was it supposed to achieve?

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for Edmonton North for that question which allows me to clarify the situation.

The purpose of that report was to evaluate problems in the operations at the centre in Vegreville and not to evaluate anything in the community of Vegreville. This was clear in the terms of reference given by the deputy minister.

The result of this study is very clear. It states problems in the centre. There is no judgment at all on the community of Vegreville. Let us be clear about that.

We all heard the comments of the mayor of Vegreville yesterday. I commend the mayor for taking the time to read the report before commenting. I commend him for his leadership in this matter. He concluded it was an internal review of the centre. That is why the deputy minister took action immediately at the centre.

Lumber Industry

[Bill Gilmour, Reform, Comox—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this government ran on a platform of jobs, yet thousands of jobs are being lost in sawmills right across the country. Mills are shutting down because lumber quotas, which this government controls, are being allocated in secret. The provinces and the companies agreed on the allocation formula, however they did not and do not agree with all the secrecy. Mill owners cannot understand why there is so much secrecy regarding a resource that is owned by the public. Mill owners feel that the minister is playing politics with their jobs.

My question is for the minister of trade. As the minister refuses to table individual mill quotas thus keeping them secret, will he at least table a full list of companies that received lumber quotas in the last round?