Mr. Speaker, it is interesting that this debate is a result of amendments proposed by the Senate, particularly in light of what happened in the Senate yesterday when it turned back term 17 to do with the Newfoundland school system.
This was a process undertaken by the people of Newfoundland in a truly democratic way, probably the most fundamental democratic process that could be arrived at, a referendum. As a person from outside the province of Newfoundland I would not offer any opinion as to the judgment of the people of Newfoundland. The people of Newfoundland in a true, fair, clear democratic process had an opportunity to speak and they did.
The result of the referendum then went to the Newfoundland assembly, those who were elected by the people of Newfoundland in a free, fair, democratic process. My understanding is that that House voted unanimously in favour of the motion. Then it came to this Parliament and this Parliament in a free vote substantiated the results of the referendum.
On Bill C-42, the Senate is now deciding in the same way that it did on term 17, to throw the bill back to this House. I think this indicates that within Canada's parliamentary process we truly must have absolute reform and come to a triple E Senate.
We know that the Senate is effective because it has managed to turn back term 17. We know that the Senate is effective in that it has managed to turn back Bill C-42, which is currently being debated in the House. We know the Senate is effective but the fact that it is not elected, is unaccountable and unrepresentative of
anyone in this country other than the political masters who put the senators there in the first place says reams about the Senate itself.
The Reform Party position always has been and will continue to be that while we require a House of sober second thought such as the Senate, it is absolutely essential that the House of sober second thought gain some credibility by going through a process of being elected and accountable.
Specifically on issue of Bill C-42, the main motion being debated is an amendment to Bill C-42 introduced by the government in the Senate. That is rather interesting in itself. Bill C-42 went from this place to the Senate. Then in the place of supposed sober second thought some flaws in Bill C-42 were discovered. We have reason to believe that the government of the day decided to use this method of making the renovations to Bill C-42, rather than by directly taking them into account in this House.
This House must be the place where legislation is made. It must be the place where legislation is voted on because this is the place where members are elected and are ultimately accountable to the people of Canada.
The current Judges Act does not allow any judge to accept any employment other than from the Government of Canada. The Judges Act at the moment does not allow judges to receive compensation from anyone other than the Government of Canada.
The Minister of Justice has passed orders in council approving Madam Justice Louise Arbour to work in the UN commencing last July 1. This is part of a pattern, and if I may suggest a rather arrogant pattern, that seems to have infested both the Liberals and the Conservatives. Because they have been the governing parties of Canada since Confederation, they go ahead and do these things without reference to this elected Chamber.
There is this order in council which permitted Madam Justice Arbour to work at the UN commencing July 1. The interesting thing, which shows the arrogance of the Liberals and of the justice minister, is that these orders in council are in direct violation of section 55 of the Judges Act. But the government said to itself: "That is no problem. We will use the rubber stamp of the House of Commons and simply get that turned around".
Why closure yet again? Many members during the last Parliament railed against the number of times closure was used by the Conservatives. Members stood in their places and made all sorts of noises about how unjust, unfair and immoral closure was. Now we see how the government has changed. It now brings in closure at will.
Why do we have closure today? Because if this bill is not passed today the justice minister will have to issue a new order in council because the present one will expire on November 30. The justice minister maintains that the order in council is valid because Madam Justice Arbour is still being paid by the Government of Canada. He has ignored the prohibition on accepting other employment which is laid out in the Judges Act.
Many lawyers make their money on fine print. It is a rather interesting part of the whole justice process. Indeed, the niggling details will end up shooting down a plaintiff or a defendant in a civil suit. Lawyers make their money by worrying about the niggling details.
As a matter of fact, I am given to believe that even in a criminal case which is currently before the Supreme Court-the Latimer case-they are talking about the details. There has been a conviction in that case and now Mr. Latimer's lawyer is saying: "But we did not take care of the details. Therefore, we are going to take it to the supreme court".
What did the justice minister say in the House on November 22 in answer to a question from my colleague from St. Albert who raised the issue of Bill C-42? It is almost unbelievable. He said: "I invite the hon. member to rise above the niggling legalisms upon which he now relies for partisan purposes and join with this government to make sure" and so on. What kind of a justice minister does Canada have? He is the supreme lawyer in Canada and he says: "I invite the hon. member to rise above the niggling legalisms". Is that not what the law is all about? It is in the detail that lawyers make their money. Here we have the justice minister turning around and saying not to worry, not to sweat the small stuff.
In this case the small stuff happens to be section 55 of the Judges Act. That section says that Madam Justice Arbour should not be doing what she is doing and that the government should not have put her in a compromised position which has occurred as a direct result of the boldfaced arrogance of the Liberals.
Many Liberal members were very upset in the last Parliament about the numerous times closure was used by the Conservatives. They railed against it. It is really interesting that in rushing bills through the House the Liberals have used closure on Bill C-33, time allocation on third reading and report stage of Bill C-41 and limited committee discussion and time allocation at third reading and report stage of Bill C-68.
And what do we have with Bill C-68? We have a whole bunch of question marks. This same justice minister came forward yesterday with his proposed regulations. What he is not talking about is that again he not only does not consult with this Chamber, he not only does not consult with the members who have been elected by the people of Canada, whether it is on Bills C-33, C-41, C-68 or C-42, he does not consult with anybody. The Liberals are a power unto themselves.
The three provinces of Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta have said they will not administer Ottawa's proposed-