Mr. Speaker, it is with great interest that I participate in this debate today on Bill C-62, the fisheries bill.
This bill, which died on the Order Paper in the last Parliament as Bill C-115, is back before this House. It proposes an integrated approach to fisheries management in Canadian waters and adjacent waters. It is the end result of a process to simplify and modernize the fisheries legislation. The words simplify and modernize I just used were certainly not intended to be taken in a positive way.
While these words generally have a positive sense, we do not consider them as such and we will not therefore support this bill put forward by the Liberal government. The fact is that there are serious flaws in the four parts of Bill C-62, which my colleagues and myself will address in greater detail in our remarks.
True to their ways and their vision of Canada, always trying to further centralize power and acting unilaterally, the federal Liberals are once again breaking their promise to decentralize and allow the provinces to play a more prominent role.
Last Wednesday, I watched on the Ottawa station of the CBC, as Quebec's favourite minister, the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, who is also a favourite of cartoonists, was boasting away as usual about this great federation whose leaders are so committed to carrying this whole decentralization effort through. This is all rhetoric coming from the Liberals and their school bag packing minister. Those who carry a school bag have to do their homework, otherwise they fail. With their Bill C-62, they are flunking the test, they are not swimming, they are sinking, which brings us back to the fish.
The people opposite will not have it any other way, because decentralizing and giving more prominence to the provinces is not consistent with federalism, with the very basis of federalism.
The federal government is certainly not prepared to commit hara-kiri. That is why they are all words and no action. It is becoming a real joke when the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs uses all the words in his vocabulary, always the same few words, to try to persuade us that Canada works.
This bill is part of the farce being played out by the ministers and their great leader, who only swears by the red book and whose promises have gone up in smoke. The first part of the bill clearly shows that the regime for the protection and management of fisheries undermines the best interests of the fisheries and the workers whose livelihood depends on this industry. This part of the bill provides for the conservation and management of fisheries.
The various elements of this part of the bill raise a lot of questions. The minister should have looked at what is happening in this industry in Quebec and the rest of Canada. That would have been the logical thing to do. However, the minister chooses to put the cart before the horse by first setting the terms of future fisheries management agreements, as is provided for in clause 17.
Some crucial elements for a relevant and appropriate review of the issue have been left out. These crucial elements deal with the core of the fisher people that needs to be defined and the appropriate fishing guidelines to be applied in the future.
The depletion of the fish stock both in the Atlantic, where ground fish are being threatened, and on the west coast has led to a moratorium on fishing in the Atlantic and forces us to stop and think about the difficulties the fishing industry is facing from sea to sea. We have to sit down with all the stakeholders and get their input to see what the future holds for the industry.
This bill ignores several important and even crucial questions for the fishing industry and those who depend on it. The people the minister had indeed consulted with are complaining because they believe nobody listened to them. What good does it do to consult the people if you do not listen to them? But we must recognize that members opposite are past masters in the art of fake consultations. For almost three years now, they have been having more and more of them in all fields.
They use these consultations as a democratic screen. In fact, it is the finance minister who started this new fad of fake consultations. You will remember the finance minister getting off a plane and running, hair flying, to consult on his first budget. Liberals suffer from a "chronic fake consultation syndrome". They consult to look good while their plans are already drawn and their decisions are already made.
Ministers keep all powers at the expense of all concerned. The whole population of Canada even saw how the Liberal leaders acted this way, a couple of weeks ago, at their last national convention. A fine democracy where the die is already cast. This bill is no exception to the Liberal smokescreen strategy.
Indeed, clause 17 really gives the Minister of Fisheries unlimited powers, which will make him the sole master of the fishing industry. He will be able to sign fisheries management agreements with any association that, in his opinion-and I repeat-in his opinion, represents a class of licensees or people.
These agreements can determine the maximum catches, the number of licenses, the rights that can be levied by Her Majesty, the obligations, responsibilities and funding measures concerning fisheries management and the applicable conservation and management programs. The minister can even establish guidelines for the tribunal on decisions to take in case of a severe violation.
With clause 17, the minister gives himself all the powers and, unfortunately, this is not necessarily in the interest of those primarily concerned, since the minister can make almost any decision without any consideration for them.
If the minister makes a bad decision in terms of resource allocation as a direct result of a lack of consultation or findings on the fisheries situation, he can always change his mind under clause 21. This does not seem very serious and shows a patent lack of will to provide a really adequate mechanism to ensure an efficient fisheries management, which would reflect reality and which all concerned would take part in and be satisfied with.
Given such a lack of vision for the future of fishing, we have every reason to be worried and we should vigorously criticize the minister and the federal government for their ineffectiveness. The future of fishermen and fisheries is once again threatened. The federal government does not do anything in this bill to rectify the situation and to reassure fishermen and all the people who rely on this industry. The future is becoming more and more gloomy.
Because of the troubling situation, this unacceptable bill and the vital importance of this issue, we are demanding that powers for fisheries management be transferred back to Quebec. Why should we trust the federal government in this area any more, when it has not done a good job of managing it and has nothing good to propose for the future?
Even though Captain Canada, who has moved on and is now threatening to pull the plug on the Churchill Falls contract, went to New York with his nets and his fish, we must not be taken for fools with regard to the content of this bill, its impact and the fact that it does not even offer a glimpse of hope for the future of the fishing industry.
I will now turn to part II of the bill, entitled "Fish Habitat Conservation and Protection, and Pollution Prevention", which is of particular interest to me. It is amazing to see the impact of this bill in terms of duplication and overlap not only with the provinces, including Quebec, but also with other federal statutes.
I am thinking about the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act and the bill that the environment minister tabled a few days ago about endangered species, among others. All this is getting very complicated.
Part II of Bill C-62 includes clauses 42 to 64. It allows the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans or another minister designated by the governor in council to take action with regard to the removal of obstructions impeding the free passage of fish or detrimental to fish habitat, the construction of fish-ways or canals and the control of activities or undertakings which are likely to result in the alteration or the destruction of fish habitat or in the deposit of a deleterious
substance in waters frequented by fish or in any place where that deleterious substance may enter any such waters.
So that part of the bill concerns all the water environment and, indirectly, the atmospheric and land environment as well, where deleterious substances may enter a stream and alter it.
The powers given under the bill to combat or prevent the various forms of pollution are considerable: authorizations, permits, notices, reports, plans and specifications, inspections, fines, orders to close, emergency interventions, and so on.
These powers are not entirely new. They are already found in the existing Fisheries Act, but they are given greater prominence through various titles and groupings. The bill also provides for more extensive powers to intervene to protect fish habitat. This part of the bill creates a major problem, because it gives the federal minister powers that are identical or similar to those available to the Quebec Minister of the Environment and Fauna under the Environment Quality Act and the Act respecting the Conservation and Development of Wildlife.
For these reasons, part II of the bill can be considered a major irritant in relations between the federal government and Quebec, just like other federal legislation, including the Canadian Environmental Protection Act or the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act.
The interference of the federal government in areas already occupied by Quebec once again duplicates legislation, adds to the number of public servants, and increases the constraints on businesses and individuals, all of which lead to inflated costs and an ineffective system. Where is the minister, with his school bag in hand, to tell the fisheries minister that the purpose of Bill C-62 is not to achieve efficiency and the grand designs of decentralization?
There is no sign of the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs in this debate. He would rather spout nonsense on various stages and mouth pious wishes in connection with our supposedly great and efficient federation. But the bill we see before us, which is almost the complete agenda of the federal government, does not pass the test. The Liberals say one thing and do another.
I would remind you that Quebec has a fundamental responsibility with respect to the protection and uses made of the aquatic environment and its resources. It has ownership of public bodies of water. It also has exclusive rights over civil rights and public property, municipal governments, local structures and industries, land development and resource use, and in general anything of a local or private nature.
It is therefore responsible for integrated management of the aquatic environment, and for taking all protective measures liable to ensure its quality, by preserving aquatic life and the natural processes essential to the species inhabiting that environment, primarily halieutic species.
It seems exaggerated, therefore, for the federal government to use its jurisdiction over fisheries and the management of conditions favourable to the maintenance and development of fishery resources to end up exercising identical or similar powers to those of Quebec over the aquatic environment.
With this bill, the federal government is taking no notice whatsoever of the concerns that have been expressed at all levels in recent years concerning duplication, inefficiency and the dilution of resources occasioned by the current situation.
On the contrary, Bill C-62 reaffirms and consolidates federal domination of an area fully covered by Quebec legislation, which directly addresses protection of the habitat of all fauna, including fish, and water pollution control in all of its forms.
In principle, the department, or any other designated by the governor in council, may duplicate or even countermand the authorizations required by clause 22 of the Quebec environmental control act, and undertake the same impact studies as those covered by that act. Similarly, the governor in council has responsibility for adopting regulations which more or less duplicate or overlap Quebec regulations, as is the case at present concerning pulp and paper plant and oil refinery effluent and the liquid effluent from metal mines.
Even more than the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, this bill would provide the federal government with a powerful tool for controlling all activities taking place in the aquatic environment, whether private property, or belonging to a municipal government or the province of Quebec.
The problem is that the jurisprudence on division of powers tends to favour the federal side, since if there is any incompatibility, the federal legislation is generally recognized as taking precedence.
I would also like to point out that most of the decisions the federal minister must make with respect to a new project or activity that may affect a waterway require, according to the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act, prior examination or an in-depth study, and in some cases a complete assessment.
In other words, part II of the bill would intrude and would continue to intrude in the future on Quebec's exclusive or predomi-
nant jurisdiction over and responsibility for development, protection and management of waterways within its territory.
To the extent that the bill reaffirms and consolidates the federal position in this area, it causes the federal government and the Quebec government to compete directly with each other and ultimately favours complete federal control over environmental management, the economy and the use of water. At best, it would have the effect of restricting Quebec's ability to define its own objectives, priorities and means of action and develop an integrated water management policy.
I wonder what would happen if a project or structure receives the requisite permit and the minister of fisheries were to decide subsequently that the structure is harmful to a certain type of fish. In this area, we will now have four federal acts and possibly a larger number of regulations that, in turn, will duplicate two Quebec acts and regulations. A real mess, in which the average person will be hopelessly lost.
Imagine the number of public servants, bureaucrats and ministers who would be able to intervene. The federal government is entirely responsible for this situation. It constantly walks all over jurisdictions already held by the provinces, especially in Quebec and especially in environmental matters.
We wish the government would stick to its own jurisdiction, and start by harmonizing at the federal level. The environment would be better off as a result.