Mr. Speaker, I welcome this opportunity to speak on the motion put forward by the Reform Party.
To begin with, I would like to quote from a book that is very well known in Quebec, and probably in English Canada as well. My hon. colleague must be familiar with it, unlike the Reform Party; I am talking about the dictionary. This dictionary contains the following definition, which I will be pleased to read my hon. colleague. Dictionaries are organized like telephone books; it is all very simple: under sedition, one finds: "The stirring up of rebellion against the government in power".
The motion before us is a motion on sedition. Could you tell me, hon. colleagues, through you, Mr. Speaker, when any "stirring up of rebellion against the government in power" took place? As our leader indicated, perhaps sharing one's plans with the national media by fax is not the best thing to do if one is contemplating treason. It is not the best way of keeping a state secret.
Another very important word is defined in this dictionary: democracy. We have been asked to provide a definition of democracy. According to the Reformers, the big, bad separatists were democratically elected by the people, but what does the word "democracy" mean? Are we expected, in this House, to make up a definition for the word "democracy"? I have news for them, a definition already exists, and it reads as follows: "A political doctrine whereby sovereignty is exercised by the people as a whole; a system of government (often a republic) in which people exercise such sovereignty. And they exercise it by choosing their representatives".
The fact that people of Quebec chose to elect 54 sovereignist members back then, members whose primary task was to defend sovereignty for Quebec, was no secret either. It could be, as my colleagues told me quite frankly yesterday, during question period, that all of the 53 current Bloc members should be accused of sedition, of treason, because that is what they really think.
The tabling of this motion was a gimmick to waste the time of the House and to make a point. What point is that? The point that, as far as the Reformers are concerned, the 53 Bloc members are not democratically elected members. To prove their point, they thought it was simple, that all they had to do was redefine the words "sedition" and "democracy", redefine the rules governing the official opposition, redefine the business of the House. They want to redefine all that. Is that democratic in your books, my hon. friends from the Reform Party? I submit that there might be a slight breach of democracy there.
How did all this begin? Upon our arrival, some very odd people took a fancy to bring a $500 million suit against us. I must admit that, faced with this, I checked in my bank book how much money I had. I was in trouble. So, I set it aside. Fortunately, this silly suit was abandoned.
The Reform Party then asked that the Prime Minister be dismissed by the Governor General, thumbing their noses at democracy. As has been the case since 1867, the leader of the party that had sent the most elected members to Parliament became the
Prime Minister; but that was not right either. So then the Reform said "OK, we will just change the definition, change democracy".
Then they said "Maybe that is not diabolical enough. Let us ask the Speaker to make us the Official Opposition; surely the principle of numbers which has been in effect since the beginning is no good, since it does not make us the Official Opposition. So, let us change the Standing Orders." Nothing is too good. Nothing is too good for the working class. So, turning up their noses at democracy, they ask for the Standing Orders to be changed. Luckily, Mr. Speaker, you stuck to the rules as you always do, and everything stayed as it was.
Then the Reform Party, great democratic party that it is, releases a 20-point document stating how and why, in 20 clear points, they are antidemocratic. It is always good to demonstrate things clearly, instead of just letting actions speak for themselves.
They start off by saying that they are for partition, and this is an antidemocratic act. As well, they say "Aboriginal territories within Quebec, within Canada, will be able to remain Canadian", once again turning their backs on democracy. And then what do they say? Such a ridiculous motion would never have occurred to us. They say "Well, if that does not work, we will send in the army." We are not the ones saying all this, they are. What is this about an apprehended revolt? Who mentions the army in a public document? It could have been kept a little more secret, but no, they called a press conference. That's the Reformers for you.
Then, another change. They say "Sedition, that word does not work for us." There is indeed a dictionary with an explanation of what sedition is, but it is not right. So Reform proposes a change-perhaps a good motion for next week-in which sedition will be defined as a crime of opinion. You are sovereignists, you express that as your opinion. We have changed the definition by changing the dictionaries, so now we can accuse everybody. That will be way easier. And what fun too.
Will the Reform Party take over where Barnum and Bailey left off? That is a question one could well ask, because they seem to be in training to become circus clowns. When will they stop their buffoonery and respect the decorum of the House? We are even thinking that, next week, they will present a motion in this House to abolish winter next year. At that time, we will keep to the level of responsibility they have set.
A Reform member tabled a motion last week. I am quoting here an article by Joël-Denis Bellavance in Le Soleil on March 13. He said: Last Friday, a Reform member tabled a motion stipulating that:-before consulting Canadians, MPs and senators in Ottawa should first determine, following a free vote-a free vote, nothing is too much-whether the question put to voters by the separating province-that must be ours-was simple and direct. A majority vote by parliamentarians would then force the federal government to organize a national referendum-'' So, forget about democracy, which is part of the rules of the game over there, and hold a national referendum. Only the best. The article goes on as follows: ``-to define the mandate to negotiate the terms of separation. If a majority of Canadians were to give such a mandate to the federal government,-no need to consult Jojo Savard on this, it will happen-it would undertake negotiations only with those Quebec electoral districts that endorsed the sovereignty proposal. The others would remain part of Canada.'' Fine respect for democracy.
And then it goes on to say that it would have to provide that Quebec would become an independent state, to be respected. The province would no longer be part of Canada. If you want to move us, send us somewhere warm. And it goes on: "Quebecers would no longer be represented in the Senate and the House of Commons. They would lose their Canadian citizenship and passport. They would lose their right to enter and travel freely within the country-"
I would point out that the United States is a sovereign country and that you can go there without any problem.
Everyday we see more and more examples of how an irresponsible party can cause people to lose faith in its members. They were elected democratically, and we respect that. We were elected democratically, and they should respect that.
They may have a political program-we cannot tell-but they were elected to carry it out, and that is what we are doing with ours. Why not tackle real problems instead of paralysing the business of this House, deliberately bringing the business of this House to a stall with points of information? We informed the military of a course of action. In a 20-point document, we were told that the army would be sent out in the event of a yes vote. Do we not also have the right to inform our people? I would think that we do; after all, it is common now, in our society, to inform the people through the media.
The Reformers said they were disappointed not to have been recognized as the official opposition. People watching the debate on television must be able to see through their little game. I personally feel this is a waste of time, as I said earlier, and this is how the Reformers hope to keep the people of Quebec from making themselves heard through their democratically elected representatives. The word "democratically" is in there are well.
I would therefore like to tell the leader of the Reform Party that we realize that in trying to muzzle the Bloc Quebecois, they are in fact trying to silence all Quebecers, because we are their representatives. I can assure you that the Bloc Quebecois will not shut up and that the people of Quebec will not be intimidated by the motion put forward by the hon. member for Okanagan-Similkameen-Merritt, which is incidentally an insidious motion. He referred to francophone Quebecers; I asked him to show me where
in the press release the words "francophone Quebecers" were used. "Nowhere", he said.
So I had a word with him-I cannot repeat it in this House because the term "lying" is unparliamentary-because of what he had done, and he said: "Yes, I know. It does not matter; we are still going ahead".
So they are consciously taking actions that violate democratic principles. Reform members should be ashamed of their lack of seriousness, of professionalism with respect to all proceedings of the House of Commons.
Again, asking the Governor General to dismiss the Prime Minister from his post has, I think, never been done; at least I hope so. They might as well ask the Speaker to ignore the Standing Orders and to make them the official opposition, or perhaps ask that next winter be abolished.
This rather whimsical strategy also seems to reflect a lack of preparation on the part of the Reform Party, an obvious lack of substance on matters that are much more important to people, and probably to their own constituents.
I see in the Reform Party's attitude a conscious attempt to delay the 35th Parliament. The Riel, Rose and McGreevy precedents in this House clearly show that such a serious accusation can only be made in a court of law. Yet, in the case of my colleague, the hon. member for Charlesbourg, two courts, one in Quebec and one in Ontario, have already ruled that this matter could not be taken to court.
In his communiqué, the hon. member for Charlesbourg was only trying to give legitimate reassurances to members of the Canadian Forces, as had been done for federal public servants. Armed Forces personnel were also entitled to be informed of the consequences of a yes vote in the referendum. The hon. member for Charlesbourg fulfilled an obligation, namely providing a segment of the population with information on their legitimate concerns. I believe that was the purpose of the communiqué of October 26, 1995.
If the Reform Party thinks to make use of this motion to beef up its credibility in the rest of Canada, or with its clientele, it is mistaken. All it is doing is beefing up its reputation as a party of clowns.
Again I repeat, all that the hon. member for Charlesbourg has done is to inform Armed Forces personnel, Quebec men and women who are in the Canadian Armed Forces, of the Quebec government's position in the event of a yes vote. Its orientations with respect to defence were clearly set out in its bill on the future of Quebec. The hon. member for Charlesbourg felt it advisable, relevant and legitimate, to submit those orientations to the members of the Canadian Armed Forces.
I shall quote, if I may, from section 17 of the draft bill on the future of Quebec, drafted well before October 25. A motion could well have been introduced accusing every single person in Quebec of sedition and high treason, because it said the following clearly-and could there be anything more dreadful?-
The government is taking the necessary steps to ensure that Quebec continues to participate in those defence alliances of which Canada is a member. Such participation must, however, be compatible with Quebec's desire to give priority to peace keeping throughout the world under the auspices of the United Nations.
This can be painless. We will take men and women who are already in the armed forces, we will integrate them into the new Quebec armed forces, and they will be called upon to carry out such missions. This is written in clause 17. We will send you the information. You will see what the sovereignist project is all about.
The communiqué issued by the member for Charlesbourg did nothing more than interpret this statement.
I find this debate is dangerous, and I would ask Reform members to stop turning this House into a circus. For their part, they could be suspected of deliberately trying to diminish the credibility of this House. This could be the subject of a motion.
Several Quebec soldiers are sovereignists; it is not a mortal sin. Several Quebec soldiers would be very happy, in a sovereign Quebec, to be members of the Quebec armed forces. Around 50 per cent voted yes, and 50 per cent voted no.
I should mention that if Reform members want to accuse us of all kinds of ills, first they should look closely at the situation of francophone soldiers and their families outside Quebec. A case in point is the story of Maryse Villeneuve, the wife of a soldier stationed in Moose-Jaw, Saskatchewan, who became so frustrated that she lodged five complaints with the Commissioner of Official Languages regarding abuses under the Official Languages Act.
The Commissioner of Official Languages Act deemed the complaints valid enough to conduct an inquiry. There was an investigation on the five complaints and, later on, another study compared services offered to francophones in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, to those offered to anglophones at CFB Bagotville.
I could make 52 copies of this and distribute them because the results of the investigation on the five complaints clearly show there are almost no services offered to French-speaking armed forces personnel in Moose Jaw, compared to services in general
and to the respect they have for the Official Languages Act in Quebec and at CFB Bagotville.
English-speaking personnel who practice-