Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his two very pertinent questions. I will answer the second one first. How did I arrive at the figure of 5 per cent rather than 3 per cent? Because in the case of countries of the European Economic Community, debt is defined as the total of a country's existing debt and deficit, including local, regional, municipal, provincial and federal levels. Whereas here, if we add the provincial government's debt-the Government of Quebec in the case we are looking at, but it could be the Government of Ontario or any other province-if we add that to the federal government deficit, even if the federal government reached its goal of 3 per cent next year, or in two or three years, if we add the provincial government debts, we would still have 4, 5 or 6 per cent.
In the European Economic Community countries, all levels of government are included in the deficit. In other words, Canada's 3 per cent would mean 1 per cent for the federal government, 1 per cent for the Government of Quebec and 1 per cent for regional local governments. That would truly bring us to 3 per cent, as it is calculated in the European Economic Community countries.
Furthermore, in Canada, if we were to add, in the case of Quebec, the debt of municipalities, the city of Montreal or the Montreal urban community, we would be much closer to 6 or 7 per cent than 3 per cent.
When the Prime Minister keeps trotting out this 3 per cent, he is referring strictly to the federal government's deficit, which is not comparable to or which does not correspond to the same concept as that used by the countries of the European Economic Community.
To reply to his first question, what I find most unfortunate in the federal government's proposal with respect to pension reform is that it is now looking at family income. Previously, the system was based on individual income. In my view, women will be the first ones to suffer under the family income approach.
As far as what I would suggest, I could say to the hon. member that it would have been better to stick with individual income. Given that we already have graduated income tax, we could taken the approach of a tax on income and people could have continued to be taxed directly, even if it means going with a percentage of the tax payable and reducing or even eliminating all tax credits. I think that the concept of basing the entire system on family income will penalize women.